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Old 12-19-2017, 04:43 PM   #1
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Limited Insubstantiality

I was wondering if it was possible for a character to have Insubstantiality with Affects Substantial and Limited to allow for a superior form of defense against specific types of attacks and/or materials? For example, could characters have Insubstantiality (Affects Substantial, +100%; Always On, -50%; Limited, Metallic Only, -40%; Magical, -10%) [80] to allow them to be immune to damage from metallic weapons? I imagine that the Affects Substantial Enhancement would be required because the characters could interact with non-metallic objects without penalty (or protection).
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Old 12-19-2017, 04:47 PM   #2
Refplace
 
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Default Re: Limited Insubstantiality

Yeah with the Affects Substantial on there I do not really see a problem here.
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Old 12-19-2017, 04:50 PM   #3
Kelly Pedersen
 
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Location: Saskatoon, SK, Canada
Default Re: Limited Insubstantiality

This sort of build has been suggested before. I don't recall if any official sourcebooks have used it, but I don't recall anyone like Kromm or PK officially shutting it down either. However, there are a few things in this particular build that'd I'd point out as possible issues.

First, I definitely wouldn't give the full -50% for Always On. That value presumes you can't touch anything. If the only thing you can't touch is metal, you're much less inconvenienced. I wouldn't give much more than -10% for the Always On limitation here. Also, note that the Always On definitely means that, while they're immune to metal weapons, they also can't touch metal. If you try to pick up a spoon, it will drop right through your hand.

Second, this still won't be absolutely perfect. The existence of insubstantiallity implies the existence of insubstantial objects, which could still hurt you. A ghost with a metal ghost-sword could stab you just fine. To avoid that, I'd charge a +50% Cosmic enhancement to have Insubstantial that functioned on "another wavelength" to standard Insubstantial creatures, and even then, an enemy could still potentially buy Insubstantial with the same enhancement and stab you.
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Old 12-19-2017, 05:46 PM   #4
dcarson
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Default Re: Limited Insubstantiality

Since wearing a pair of gloves is a easy Mitigator to the Insubstantial to Metal I'd lower the discount for Always On a lot. Maybe to only -10%.
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Old 12-20-2017, 04:49 AM   #5
Nereidalbel
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Ellicott City, MD
Default Re: Limited Insubstantiality

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Originally Posted by dcarson View Post
Since wearing a pair of gloves is a easy Mitigator to the Insubstantial to Metal I'd lower the discount for Always On a lot. Maybe to only -10%.
Ah, but, if my metal hammer strikes your gloves, your hands end up broken anyway. So, there's still a downside to wearing literally anything.
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Old 12-20-2017, 05:26 AM   #6
Andreas
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Default Re: Limited Insubstantiality

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
I was wondering if it was possible for a character to have Insubstantiality with Affects Substantial and Limited to allow for a superior form of defense against specific types of attacks and/or materials? For example, could characters have Insubstantiality (Affects Substantial, +100%; Always On, -50%; Limited, Metallic Only, -40%; Magical, -10%) [80] to allow them to be immune to damage from metallic weapons? I imagine that the Affects Substantial Enhancement would be required because the characters could interact with non-metallic objects without penalty (or protection).
It is worth remembering that this does significantly more than just provide superior defense against metal. It also allows you unarmed attacks to bypass metal armor. I think this is a good reason to be cautious of limitied insubstantiallity like this.
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Old 12-20-2017, 06:52 AM   #7
Nereidalbel
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Ellicott City, MD
Default Re: Limited Insubstantiality

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Originally Posted by Andreas View Post
It is worth remembering that this does significantly more than just provide superior defense against metal. It also allows you unarmed attacks to bypass metal armor. I think this is a good reason to be cautious of limitied insubstantiallity like this.
As long as the build lacks Can Carry, the trade-off you must make is that you can't wear anything at all, or metal weapons that deal Crushing damage will still shatter your rib cage just fine. The guy in armor will also be able to grapple you just fine, and that simply isn't good for your health.
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Old 12-20-2017, 07:21 AM   #8
Andreas
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Default Re: Limited Insubstantiality

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Originally Posted by Nereidalbel View Post
As long as the build lacks Can Carry, the trade-off you must make is that you can't wear anything at all, or metal weapons that deal Crushing damage will still shatter your rib cage just fine. The guy in armor will also be able to grapple you just fine, and that simply isn't good for your health.
Wearing armor isn't necessarily something you would do anyway. You might for example have DR with the can't wear armor limitation. Since such other options save you points, it probably shouldn't have a large effect on such insubstantiality as well.
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Old 12-20-2017, 07:59 AM   #9
Nereidalbel
 
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Default Re: Limited Insubstantiality

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Originally Posted by Andreas View Post
Wearing armor isn't necessarily something you would do anyway. You might for example have DR with the can't wear armor limitation. Since such other options save you points, it probably shouldn't have a large effect on such insubstantiality as well.
And then people just hit you with rocks tied to sticks. Flint-tipped arrows and crossbow bolts will still ruin your day, and, they're generally cheaper to mass-produce, anyway. The only setting in which being immune to metal makes you anywhere near invulnerable is one in which all combat is done with guns.
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Old 12-20-2017, 11:27 AM   #10
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: Limited Insubstantiality

I think that requires Can Carry Objects, which would not be a bad idea, especially if the character is a vampire or other supernatural monster that resembles a human. In any case, I think that it would probably be appropriate to add No Vertical Movement (-10%), limit Affects Substation to Non-Metallic (which would reduce it to +80%), and limit Always On to Metallic Only (which would reduce it to -30%) based on the comments so far. With Can Carry Objects, Heavy, with Non-Metallic Only (which would make it +80% rather than +100%), you could wear non-metallic armor without issue, though it would have some very interesting effects (picking up a halberd would cause the head to fall off because the haft would pass through the metal).
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