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Old 02-05-2012, 07:47 AM   #11
Mathulhu
 
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Default Re: Problem with low acc on the Kwk40 (in 4e)

Also, I believe the +4 modifier is in the Basic Set somewhere near the rules for vehicles.
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Old 02-05-2012, 10:19 AM   #12
HANS
 
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Default Re: Problem with low acc on the Kwk40 (in 4e)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derago View Post
In High-Tech, the stats for the 75mm kwk 40 (for those that don't know, it the main gun of one version of the Panzer 4) has attributed it with an acc of 6+1. That seems to be far too low. Is there something I am missing that would allow the weapon to accurately engage targets at greater range (besides ridiculous skill levels)?
You're missing several things. First, most WWII tanks were stationary when they shot, and crews preferred to shoot at stationary targets, as well. So no Speed penalty. Crews would almost always aim, which gives you the complete Acc bonus. Finally, most tank battles were at relatively short distances (compared to modern tank engagements). 500-yard shots or even 200-yard shots are far more likely than 1,500-yard shots. In Europe, the mean range in close country (such as Normandy) was something like 400 yards, in open country 1,200 yards, according to a British post-war document called "A survey of tank warfare in Europe from D-Day to 12 August 1944", based on 112 tank engagements.

A 1,200-yard shot would play out as follows

Gunner-12
SM +4
Speed +0
Range -17
Aim +7 (Acc 6+1)
AoA +1
Braced +1 (+4 if you have Tactical Shooting)

That’s 8, or 11 if you have Tactical Shooting – better, if you Aim longer.

According to the Red Army Handbook 1939-1945, less than 5% of Soviet tanks destroyed with the 75mm gun were at such or longer range.

A 400-yard shot would play out as follows

Gunner-12
SM +4
Speed +0
Range -14
Aim +7 (Acc 6+1)
AoA +1
Braced +1 (+4 if you have Tactical Shooting)

That’s 11, or 14 if you have Tactical Shooting – better, if you Aim longer.

According to the Red Army Handbook 1939-1945, some 36% of Soviet tanks destroyed with the 75mm gun were at such or shorter range.

That means that a moderately-skilled gunner has a pretty fair chance to hit even with the rules in Basic Set, and the clarification in Tactical Shooting improves it a lot.

Cheers

HANS
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Old 02-05-2012, 11:52 AM   #13
vicky_molokh
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Default Re: Problem with low acc on the Kwk40 (in 4e)

Interesting.

The assumption for vehicle combat in G:SS is that the gunner is doing an Aimed Dedicated All-Out Attack with 3 seconds of aim (i.e. Acc+2), and gains +9 for the 'vehicular targeting system'. Wonder what that includes, and how much of it a tank has (after all, GSS guns are starting from TL7, modern tank guns are TL8, and I think WWII ones will be TL6 to borderline 7).
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Old 02-05-2012, 02:26 PM   #14
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Default Re: Problem with low acc on the Kwk40 (in 4e)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathulhu View Post
Also, I believe the +4 modifier is in the Basic Set somewhere near the rules for vehicles.
In Basic it mentions only that vehicle-mounted weapons will likely have targeting systems like optical scopes or radar-directed fire control, providing +2 or +3. Considering the options available in High Tech for computerized targeting scopes, the bonus could easily be double that at TL8. If we assume a +5 targeting system and the +4 "turret" bonus from TS, it's easy enough to get the +9 used in SS.
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