GURPS: Empires?

[Siggmund]

To give a little backstory; Over the summer, my gaming group used forum games to interact: usually, these games would be of a "realm-management" setup: We'd create societies, a map, and a setting, and then engage in politics, military maneuvers, building up settlements and so forth.

One continuing problem we've had with these games, though, is what rules to use to support the "numbers" part of the games; although everyone loves the interaction and storybuilding, when it comes down to brass tacks of "who wins this military conflict" or "how much money does this town actually make to support a military", then things begin to break down.

Being a long time fan of GURPS, I recently picked up GURPS mass combat, which is pretty much perfect for what we've been doing: The only problem is, I haven't found any similar system for handling the realm-scale economics side of the issue. The new cities supplement looks close, but does it include rules for characters improving a settlement, or building new ones?


In short, how would I represent a 4x- like game using GURPS rules?

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Siggmund

Being a long time fan of GURPS, I recently picked up GURPS mass combat, which is pretty much perfect for what we've been doing: The only problem is, I haven't found any similar system for handling the realm-scale economics side of the issue. The new cities supplement looks close, but does it include rules for characters improving a settlement, or building new ones?

No. What City Stats does is give a way of calculating the military force that a given municipality can and will support and the defensive value of a given kind of city or fortification. What you'd still need is are guidelines for how fast and how much a city can grow, and a random event table for things like droughts, and the appearance off dissident factions.

[Siggmund]

Hrm. I'll probably still get it, just for those guidelines.

One of the ideas I've thought may work would be to use a system kinda like Spaceships... I.E. each stronghold has space for a certain number of "components" which could provide benefits, such as production... problem is, for anything other than a TL 8+ setting, I'd have to pretty much eyeball all the stats; I'm not that good at balancing.

Has anyone else ever tried something like this?

[gjc8]

There was a system (designed for Yrth Baronies) that game up in Roleplaying in General a month or so ago that might be the sort of thing your looking for. If I get a moment, I'll see if I can find it.

[MrKay]

Pyramid #3 has some neat guidelines on how to calculate population growth based on a number of variables and even comes complete with a handy excel sheet to help you do the number-crunching. You still have to approximate some numbers, but it's a good start.

In addition, John Ross' website has a page on medieval populations, their densities and distributions. Been of aid to me on several occasions, even if just as a guideline.

[Siggmund]

Originally Posted by MrKay

Pyramid #3 has some neat guidelines on how to calculate population growth based on a number of variables and even comes complete with a handy excel sheet to help you do the number-crunching. You still have to approximate some numbers, but it's a good start.

In addition, John Ross' website has a page on medieval populations, their densities and distributions. Been of aid to me on several occasions, even if just as a guideline.

Those look like amazing sources, Thanks!

[archypetro]

Originally Posted by Siggmund

To give a little backstory; Over the summer, my gaming group used forum games to interact: usually, these games would be of a "realm-management" setup: We'd create societies, a map, and a setting, and then engage in politics, military maneuvers, building up settlements and so forth.

One continuing problem we've had with these games, though, is what rules to use to support the "numbers" part of the games; although everyone loves the interaction and storybuilding, when it comes down to brass tacks of "who wins this military conflict" or "how much money does this town actually make to support a military", then things begin to break down.

Being a long time fan of GURPS, I recently picked up GURPS mass combat, which is pretty much perfect for what we've been doing: The only problem is, I haven't found any similar system for handling the realm-scale economics side of the issue. The new cities supplement looks close, but does it include rules for characters improving a settlement, or building new ones?


In short, how would I represent a 4x- like game using GURPS rules?

Edit:
Ahh, sorry. Didn't see the earlier post :)

There actually was a game that attempted to do this
"A tale of two baronies"

sadly, it didn't last too long as the GM had some RL issues, i believe.
But he posted in the OOC thread a way of generating income and managing resources etc.

might be worth having a look

[macphersonrants]

This is a great idea. I'd love to see it done up as an official GURPS project. I could even see a DF project that simulated the trope in D&D where you hit name level and all of a sudden got the ability to have a home base and henchmen.

Something that modeled organizations in conflict would be very useful. It's been done but not for GURPS.

Of course, in addition to City Stats, Mass Combat might be helpful for your project.

[Siggmund]

Allright, I've taken a look at the rules created in A Tale of Two Baronies... They seem very solid for a TL 3 or so setting. However, since my group likes to vary the setting from time to time, I'm aiming for a more universal system: For instance, this time we've decided on a Futuristic setting for space colonists.

Over the weekend, I pondered on the system, and currently, I think the best option is to use a system akin to Spaceships components... and when I say "akin to", I mean "Nearly identical to"... to handle the settlement and economic side of things, while using Mass Combat to handle military matters. In general, the only thing that will need to be generated whole cloth is how to handle population... and I have a number of ideas as to how that should be incorporated.

In effect, instead of having Fore, Aft, and Central hull areas, Settlements will be comprised of Urban, Suburban, and Rural Districts, each of which can hold 6 component "zones". In addition, there are 2 core areas, but one of them is always occupied by a Command center, which represents the administration and initial infrastructure of the settlement.

As for the zones, after doing some calculations balancing the production ability of a Factory, the ability of a Mining component to supply it, and how much population a Habitat can hold to work these zones, I think the ideal starting size of zones is SM+10.

I figure as I work on this, I'll post my notes here: Certainly couldn't hurt to get the thoughts and opinions of GURPS veterans more experienced than I.

[jason taylor]

Marc Miller's Pocket Empires gives ideas.