[Mass Combat] The main battle of Pandora in GURPS MC terms?

[Þorkell]

I see no reason to model that battle in Mass Combat terms, since like most battles in movies it's a battle of who runs out of troops last.

There was no thought behind the action, they met each other with all their force head on and battered at each other until one side gave in. No maneuvers, or anything like that.

[ADAXL]

Originally Posted by Phoenix_Dragon

They didn't really seem that way. Confident, yes, and they neglected advanced scouting. But they still brought in a good concentration of firepower, and had ground security as well. They basically brought in every military asset they had focused in a single point. I'm sure they didn't think anything could go wrong, but it didn't seem overconfident. Let's not forget that they were winning until the reinforcements arrived. :>

I still think Quaritch acted like old Custer. No proper scouting, a head-on attack without reserves and lots of disdain for the natives. I think James Cameron deliberately set up Quaritch to resemble the classic colonial officer.

Originally Posted by Phoenix_Dragon

They'd been there for years. Quaritch seemed to have a very good idea of what they were capable of. Plus, he had all of Jake's logs. At most, that would change their chosen battle strategy. Plus, Jake's knowledge let them pull off the ambush, anyway.

Jake stopped submitting logs after the attack on the great tree. The sheer size of the Na'vi host was a big surprise.

Originally Posted by Phoenix_Dragon

Everything was visual engagement at that point, and Trudy's gunship was rather distinctly marked (Likely just as much to make sure the Na'vi knew which one was on their side!). And it looked like the Dragon was the only aircraft to engage her, all the other gunships were fighting the flying creatures.

Point taken. Still, there is a chance of accidental shootings in the confusion if the pilots know about a renegade gunship.

Originally Posted by Phoenix_Dragon

In any case, I think friendly fire is already abstracted into the Mass Combat rules. Trudy's gunship was probably more distinct from the RDA gunships than most combatants would be in most low-tech combats (Lack of uniforms sucks).

Ordinary friendly fire, yes. This is something different: An single enemy craft that looks like yours, piloted by an old comrade.

[Phoenix_Dragon]

Originally Posted by Þorkell

I see no reason to model that battle in Mass Combat terms, since like most battles in movies it's a battle of who runs out of troops last.

There was no thought behind the action, they met each other with all their force head on and battered at each other until one side gave in. No maneuvers, or anything like that.

There was some. The humans had a good fireline established on the ground that decimated the Na'vi charge, and the airborn elements had a good defensive phalanx setup. The Na'vi mainly just charged straight in (Which ac****ed for them being largely slaughtered). The main exception being that they maneuvered to come at an advantageous angle. But otherwise, their tactics were simple brute-force, and they got thrashed for it.

Though really, if you wouldn't model a battle of that number with Mass Combat, what would you model it with?

[Phoenix_Dragon]

Originally Posted by ADAXL

I still think Quaritch acted like old Custer. No proper scouting, a head-on attack without reserves and lots of disdain for the natives. I think James Cameron deliberately set up Quaritch to resemble the classic colonial officer.

Probably, yeah. Though he didn't come off as completely arrogant about it, really. He was pretty firm on stressing just how dangerous they could be. That, and the relative lack of options. His arrogance wasn't in that attack, it was in the attack on the Hometree. After that, he was rather forced into that poor situation, or face a far worse one soon after.

Jake stopped submitting logs after the attack on the great tree. The sheer size of the Na'vi host was a big surprise.

Remember the orbital thermal scans. If I'm remembering right, they estimated the Na'vi group to be numbered at over twenty thousand and growing rapidly. They knew they were in trouble :>

[Þorkell]

Originally Posted by Phoenix_Dragon

Though really, if you wouldn't model a battle of that number with Mass Combat, what would you model it with?

Considering all the thought that went into it from either leader? Quick Contest of Tactics or Strategy.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Þorkell

Considering all the thought that went into it from either leader? Quick Contest of Tactics or Strategy.

Well, this is what MC battles are made of. It's just that they take modifiers for force size, superior air support etc.

[Þorkell]

Originally Posted by Molokh

Well, this is what MC battles are made of. It's just that they take modifiers for force size, superior air support etc.

Yeah, well... I think that in this case it's complicating things, since clearly our characters are giving no thought to tactics or anything like that, and they just charge at each other.

I can see the following exchange

GM: So, what do you do?
"Marine" commander: CHAAAARGE!
Smurf commander: CHAAAARGE!
GM: Oh, great....uh, QC of Tactics/Strategy
SC & MC: Oh, bother. Didn't take that skill. What's the default?
GM: OK....uh, roll IQ-6.
MC: Bummer, failed by 1.
SC: Oooh! Made it by 1.
GM: MC you lose your whole force!
MC: WHAT?
SC: Woo-hoo! I won!

[Langy]

The 'smurf' commander would have failed his roll if you follow the events in the movie. The only reason he won was due to GM intervention/railroading.

[KjetilKverndokken]

Originally Posted by Phoenix_Dragon

Remember the orbital thermal scans. If I'm remembering right, they estimated the Na'vi group to be numbered at over twenty thousand and growing rapidly. They knew they were in trouble :>

2000 and growing

[Phoenix_Dragon]

Originally Posted by Þorkell

Yeah, well... I think that in this case it's complicating things, since clearly our characters are giving no thought to tactics or anything like that, and they just charge at each other.

Yes. That's an All-Out Attack in Mass Combat. Also a long-favored tactic of many real-world warriors.

It may be simpler to just do a quick contest, but this is really just a excercise in how the rules can be applied. Someone comes up with a fun idea, to see how one could use the Mass Combat rules to represent something. Coming into the middle of it just to say that you shouldn't bother using those rules isn't exactly helpful.

Plus, nitpick. The human forces didn't charge. In fact, their tactics were about as good as could be expected for the situation (With the exception of a lack of scouting). And the Na'vi achieving an ambush at least shows some thought toward tactics. At least, in the air...