Is Mass Combat seeing play?

[hari]

I don't hear people mention Mass Combat here much at all. Are you using it? If so, how? Low or high TLs? How often do you use it? Is it just an occasional thing or is it your focus? And if you are not using it, how do you imagine you would use it? How would you like to use it?

It's interesting that, although it's cannon GURPS, the majority of the crunch in it is so unrelated. What thoughts might anyone have on that? Would you like to see it expanded? Or see it revised? Or do you not care?

[Mailanka]

I used it for an Ultra Tech battle. I found it quite simple to put together, fairly easy to take my players more general descriptions of their tactics and put it into action on the form of a Mass Combat strategy. More importantly, I found that going over the forces and the rules gave me ideas for the sorts of military units you might encounter in the game, thus inspiring me to devise a number of interesting vehicles.

All in all, I think it's helped my game quite a bit.

[vicky_molokh]

I GMed it once, will do again.

[Phoenix_Dragon]

Got used durring the big climax of a SF/fantasy campaign, where the players basically organized and assisted in the retaking of a world.

If I do any of the "empire building" campaigns I have running around in my head, it would certainly be a good part of the game. And there are a couple prospects for reeealy big "epic finalle" combats that would likely see their use.

[sjard]

I haven't used it yet, but have several battles planned to use it in the near future in a couple of different games.

[hal]

This is a recollection after the fact, and I'm probably missing out on a few details...

The campaign world I used the GURPS MASS COMBAT for 4e is HARN, and the campaign revolves around three player characters. One of the player character knights (they all started as household knights by the way), has Born War Leader 4, and Strategy & Tactics at 16 and 17 respectively. Coupled with Charisma 1 and Voice advantages, not to mention Luck - this particular player character has been getting in good with the higher end nobility. At one point in time, he got to know the King of Kaldor's Niece, who is also his Chamberlain, and as a consequence of other activities, had drawn the King's attention. Long story short, in the span of 2 years from the character's point of view, he has gone from a simple household knight to a Sheriff of a Shire, to the King's general for a war against Gargun (Harnic Orcs basically).

The Spring muster of 722 TR (Turzyn Reckoning, sorta like AD) resulted in the entire Kingdom of Kaldor mustering the following forces:

22 Units of Heavy Cavalry
22 Units of Light Cavalry
15 Units of Medium Foot
33 Units of Light Foot
11 Units of Longbow
15 Units of Shortbow


The main opponent has close to 100 units of Light Infantry - some that were very capable fighters in a woodland environment, and the rest were pretty much ill led light foot. They did however, have a MAJOR fortification to fall back upon initially.

The original order of march broke down the above kingdom forces into 3 separate groups - the Vanguard, the Main Camp, and the Rear Guard. The Vanguard was comprised mostly of light forces such as light infantry and light cavalry. One player character was given control of the light calvalry (made up mostly of squires and young warriors) with the task of initial contact and an attempt to hit the "forager/hunters" of the gargun. Another was given the task of marching along a narrow road near the gorge/river (known as the Silver Way), and approach the Gargun fortification from the North (the main army was hitting Fana from the south for the most part). The Main group however, held many of the Men-at-arms, archers, and some Knights, and theirs was the task to approach Fana (the fortification) outright.

After a few deceptive attacks (feints) in the early stages of the battle, in which the Gargun sent a large group of their forces after the light infantry and light cavalry - it was determined that the gargun had mostly left the entrance to Fana relatively lightly guarded. Initially, the intent was to hit the forage parties, drive the gargun back to the main fortifaction, and then lay seige. Upon determining that more gargun were outside of the fortifications than inside, Sir Kendryk mounted a heavy assult against the fortification outright with his dismounted Knights, and heavier infantry plus archers. The battle raged to the point where it looked as though the Human/Dwarven Alliance would be thrown back at the gates. That is when Dame Jaemee found a side entrance into Fana (a sally port), that was lightly guarded - as most of the gargun there were pulled back to hold the main gate. Her penetration with the squires, forced the gargun to split their forces. In the meantime, Sir Mykal, leading a contingent of Knights, had approached from the north in an effort to get the other "hunters" out in the woods, and after taking casualties and leaving behind his wounded on the battlefield, began a sweep to find more gargun hunters. He ran smack dab into the secondary group of Gargun who had initially intented to hit the light cavalry and light infantry earlier on. Instinctively (and I DO mean instinctively), Sir Mykal made a fighting withdrawal for his chosen tactic when confronting the gargun that he chanced upon with zero warning. Had he stood and fought instead of making a fighting retreat, he likely would have been pinned in place, and his running battle would have been costly in lives. Instead, he danced just out of their reach (as the gargun were on foot without cavalry), and eventually returned to the main group assaulting the frontal gates. This is when he made the choice of keeping his knights in the rear to protect the seige train and the camp of peasant workers safe.

So throughout all of this, a battle that lasted well over 5 hours, there were basically two separate forces involved (ie two main battles). Dame Jaemee's risk by taking her squires through the sally port after overcoming their resistance gave Sir Mykal (in game terms, her heroic action gave him a +1 bonus to his rolls) the time and space he needed to dig in, and push back on the gargun (there were rolls where Sir Mykal BARELY won the combat round, and the gargun with their fortification bonus almost didn't get thrown back!)

My players were initually used to the GURPS MASS COMBAT from COMPENDIUM II, and thus, were not all too concerned with the battle or how it might unfold. The new version literally held them all at the edge of their seats. Each combat round where the players had to see if their characters would fall or not, had them very worried. My wife's character made certain to never take more than a +1 risk, while the player running Sir Mykal was taking insane risks every battle round (ie +3 risk). Sir Kendryk's player would not take any risks simply because he feared what would happen to the battle if his character fell in combat.

In all? The players enjoyed it. I found it a useful tool to describe events as they occurred each combat round, instead of trying to make one roll represent the entire battle under the old Mass Combat rules.

I also used the rules to determine what happened (if anything) to the various major NPC's. One Earl fell in battle and was captured by the Queen Gargun of Fana. The players had to wrestle with the fact that the Queen sent the Earl's severed ring finger bearing his ring saying "This human will be sold to the highest bidder. Each month that he is not purchased, will result in a body part of his being sent to you." Of course, the Earl's wife mustered as much money as she could to buy her husband back!

So, yes, we'll use the rules again (Kaldor's King has died and it has now entered into a succession crisis. Civil War looms over the horizon, and an ancient bloodline is plotting to regain the throne of Kaldor - even if it means that all of the Clan Elendsa must die! Even one of the friends of the player characters is planning a contingency plan, that if Kaldor enters into a civil war, that he and three other nobles will declare neutrality in the civil war and break away, forming a new kingdom.

So, while I can't predict for sure that there will be more mass battles, I can say that it certainly looks like it. And even if Civil War is averted at the last minute, the man who hopes to be King (assuming his clan line continues to hold the throne), intends to reopen a war against Chybisa and force them to renew their oaths of fealty by rights of conquest (they broke away from the Kingdom after having been annexed earlier in the previous century).

Civil War or reconquest - either way, GURPS MASS COMBAT will play a part in my campaign :)

[The Wrathchild]

Man, a strategic Hârn game ... mayhap as PbP?

You evil man, you! I have no time!

...

Ah, don't mind me, I'm just envious.

[Kaldrin]

I used it in my zombie campaign when the intelligent zombies put together an army and attacked the town the PCs were living in. 1200 firearm carrying people behind defensible positions turned out to be quite lopsided when you threw only a slightly larger completely unarmed force at them... even when they were zombies.

[Christopher R. Rice]

I use it a lot, especially in my last (now gone game due to a computer glitch) campaign. My players like it and I rarely have any complaints for settling up massive combats that way. Though it hasn't gotten a lot of attention I think that its pretty much a *must* for any military-esque game, because eventually, your going to need it. Also used it for my realistic mini-setting in Vietnam where all the PC's took the role of Navy SEALs, it works well even for a realistic type setting even thought it is abstracted.

Ghostdancer

[james73]

I used it with no problems and enjoyed it. I especially liked the part where the PCs had to invest their own well being into the greater overall battle.