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Old 06-30-2009, 08:16 AM   #1
vicky_molokh
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Default [Mass Combat] 'Battling Monsters', swarms/hordes and 'Cunning' . . .

Greetings, all!

MC27 notes that groups of monsters use IQ or Per ('Cunning' value) instead of Strategy when confronting strategists. However, it is unclear: under exactly what conditions is this allowed? And for cases where it normally isn't, what advantage would make it possible again? I'm wondering about the Rules Exemption/Extra Option Perk, but am not sure.

This is mostly intended for modelling swarms, hords and Chaotic races.

Thanks in advance!
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Old 06-30-2009, 03:50 PM   #2
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Default Re: [Mass Combat] 'Battling Monsters', swarms/hordes and 'Cunning' . . .

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Originally Posted by Molokh View Post
Greetings, all!

MC27 notes that groups of monsters use IQ or Per ('Cunning' value) instead of Strategy when confronting strategists. However, it is unclear: under exactly what conditions is this allowed? And for cases where it normally isn't, what advantage would make it possible again? I'm wondering about the Rules Exemption/Extra Option Perk, but am not sure.

This is mostly intended for modelling swarms, hords and Chaotic races.

Thanks in advance!
As the guy who came up with this in the playtest, and asked to include it in the book what I was thinking mostly for the 'cunning' score (David came up with the name) was something like Godzilla (which we did 3 mock up battles for) and Cloverfeild. BIG, HUGE, MASSIVE foes who aren't smart in the movies but seem to be able to kick the military's butt each and every time. It should be the GM's call when this rule is used. While I am not Kromm, David, or Phil I would think a Extra Option perk would do it right up, representing a kind of overall hivemind (which is what I guess your getting at).

Just my opinion,

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Old 07-01-2009, 03:18 PM   #3
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Default Re: [Mass Combat] 'Battling Monsters', swarms/hordes and 'Cunning' . . .

Well, I'm so unsure mostly because it creates a dilemma:

Price it as a Perk (or maybe a Feature as a Perk + Quirk), because it doesn't give much benefit to an individual unless a part of a swarm with the same perk.
Or price it somehow else, because it allows bypassing a need for a central skill in warfare.
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Old 07-01-2009, 08:19 PM   #4
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Default Re: [Mass Combat] 'Battling Monsters', swarms/hordes and 'Cunning' . . .

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Originally Posted by Molokh View Post
Well, I'm so unsure mostly because it creates a dilemma:

Price it as a Perk (or maybe a Feature as a Perk + Quirk), because it doesn't give much benefit to an individual unless a part of a swarm with the same perk.
Or price it somehow else, because it allows bypassing a need for a central skill in warfare.
I would go for a perk but that's just me, I seem to remember a thread a while back about Tactics and a race that neither had it or benefited from it. Actually I think you started it but I can't remember the thread title exactly. Call it a feature if the element should have it, call it a perk if its a normal person but with a quasi funky hive mind.

Meh.

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Old 07-01-2009, 09:30 PM   #5
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Default Re: [Mass Combat] 'Battling Monsters', swarms/hordes and 'Cunning' . . .

Any reason why you couldn't just use the Strategy skill and call it something else? Maybe base it on Perception and let it do a little less?
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Old 07-02-2009, 12:55 AM   #6
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Default Re: [Mass Combat] 'Battling Monsters', swarms/hordes and 'Cunning' . . .

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Any reason why you couldn't just use the Strategy skill and call it something else? Maybe base it on Perception and let it do a little less?
Because the whole point of 'Cunning' is simulation of entities that don't rely on the Strategy skill.
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Old 07-02-2009, 05:58 AM   #7
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Default Re: [Mass Combat] 'Battling Monsters', swarms/hordes and 'Cunning' . . .

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Originally Posted by Molokh View Post
Because the whole point of 'Cunning' is simulation of entities that don't rely on the Strategy skill.
I wonder if, at least realistically, such entities shouldn't be made to use Strategy at default anyway, and just have really excessive TS scores. Imagine how much more deadly Godzilla would be if operated as an organic supertank by a smart commander rather than rampaging as a dumb, angry lizard.
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Old 07-02-2009, 10:25 AM   #8
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Default Re: [Mass Combat] 'Battling Monsters', swarms/hordes and 'Cunning' . . .

In many cases, it appears that the monsters have Affliction (Incompetence, Tactics), not any actual tactical skill of their own.
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Old 07-03-2009, 07:07 PM   #9
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Default Re: [Mass Combat] 'Battling Monsters', swarms/hordes and 'Cunning' . . .

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Originally Posted by Molokh View Post
Because the whole point of 'Cunning' is simulation of entities that don't rely on the Strategy skill.
So, take the Strategy skill, which does everything you want Cunning to do, then call it Cunning. You now no longer rely on Strategy. You rely on Cunning.

Or is there something wholely different about the statistical applications of Cunning as opposed to Strategy, besides the description and name? If so, why not just make a new skill?

Also, if this is for NPCs, and you're the GM, why does it even matter? If you want the enemies to do something, have them just do it, and call them cunning if anyone asks. If you need to roll for it, pick a good number that would be appropriate as a challenge and roll against that.
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Old 07-04-2009, 02:29 AM   #10
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Default Re: [Mass Combat] 'Battling Monsters', swarms/hordes and 'Cunning' . . .

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Originally Posted by Goober4473 View Post
So, take the Strategy skill, which does everything you want Cunning to do, then call it Cunning. You now no longer rely on Strategy. You rely on Cunning.

Or is there something wholely different about the statistical applications of Cunning as opposed to Strategy, besides the description and name? If so, why not just make a new skill?
Creatures using cunning don't use a skill, they use their attributes.
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