[Basic] Reputations for bad people

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Joe

Another way to put it: GURPS already provides for social traits that are mostly detrimental, but which are sometime a bit beneficial - they're the disadvantages you guys mention; disadvantages such as Horrific Appearance, etc.

But RogerBW is asking about the opposite case: social traits that are mostly beneficial, but sometimes a bit detrimental.

I think it's a real problem - and I quite like the proposed solution, too.

I don’t quite think that’s it. GURPS does have social traits that are mostly detrimental but sometimes a bit beneficial but both effects come “baked into” the price. While I can’t think of a proper example offhand, the same ought to be true of effects that are mostly beneficial but sometimes a bit detrimental.

Grudging, and I might call it Unwilling or Coerced Cooperation, is a bit closer to the concept of an Unwilling Ally/Patron but it doesn’t quite fit if the idea is an occasional detriment to a benefit.

A person giving Coerced Cooperation will probably slip away at the first reasonable opportunity. What’s reasonable depends. You probably aren’t going to leave your little room if there are a pair of thugs with SMGs on the stairwell leading down, even if the “boss” isn’t looking over your shoulder but if the stairwell is empty and it’s just a short trip across the warehouse floor to the door out, that NPC is likely gone. If he’s got a conscientious disadvantage, he may gather up his “working papers” and any prototype before leaving to mitigate any damage his Coerced Cooperation might bring about but I’m having a hard time seeing this as deserving points nor point reductions. This just seems to be the natural outcome of the situation, no special rules needed.

I’m having a bit of a failure of imagination about what a benefit with a sometimes detriment would look like. I keep thinking of something along the lines of “I don’t have to worry. I told Charlie to call the police at 1400 hrs, if he didn’t hear from me.”, only Charlie didn’t.

This needs some more thought.

Thinking about Grudging in connection with Reputations, whether positive or negative, brings me to the idea of Grudgingly Conceded as a Limitation. As currently envisioned it’s worth nothing as a modifier. It is intended to represent certain characters such as Spider-Man or Robin Hood. Most people in Robin Hood are aware that he’s an outlaw/highway robber (negative reputation) but don’t particularly care. Likewise, most heroes and villains take Spider-Man as a hero despite the negative reputation Jolly J. Jonah Jameson has hung on him. A Reputation (Grudgingly Conceded) takes the following form:

[-5] Scarecrow (Grudgingly Conceded): -4 Murderer/Smuggler, [Almost everyone except one large class (Spaniards), All the time], large class of people (King’s soldiers, pressgangs, excisemen, and Bow Street Runners), Sometimes 10-

The difference in a Grudgingly Conceded Reputation is that you are more widely known for your reputation than your points would suggest but the points are received only for the group that cares about it enough to make it an issue.