When exactly spell is casted?

[GWJ]

Originally Posted by Basic Set p.362

After everyone has taken his turn, one second has passed.

Originally Posted by Basic Set p.363

Once every active character has taken his turn, one second has passed and another second begins

Originally Posted by Basic Set p.363

A given participant’s turn is the one-second period that stretches from when he chooses a maneuver until his next opportunity to select a maneuver. This overlaps the turns of other characters.

So I got it - my turn starts when I'm choosing maneuver, and ends when I'm going to choose my second maneuver, and actions of all other characters are still in my turn.

BUT

Originally Posted by Magic p.7 and BS p.235

At the end of the last second of concentration, make a success roll for the spell

So even if I'm casting spell with duration of 1 second, I'm rolling not at the end of my "acting part of my turn", but immediately before my NEXT turn?

I found also:

Originally Posted by Magic p.7

Take the Concentrate maneuver for
one turn and attempt your skill roll at
the end of your turn. If you succeed,
the spell takes effect instantly.
Whether you succeed or fail, your turn
ends as soon as you roll the dice. No
one can interrupt a one-second spell
unless he took the Wait maneuver on
his own turn before the caster began
concentrating.

So I don't know which statement is true, because I think rules from BS and Magic are mutually exclusive in this case...

[Phantasm]

The way I've always done it in the past is that the spell goes off right before the caster's next round. An attack spell would be up to three rounds of Concentration building it up, then an Attack to land the spell on its target.

Lately, however, I've been letting the spell go off at the start like any other attack.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by GWJ

So I got it - my turn starts when I'm choosing maneuver, and ends when I'm going to choose my second maneuver, and actions of all other characters are still in my turn.

I continue to insist that it's much easier to understand GURPS turn sequence if you think of turns as having no particular duration. Your turn starts when you choose a maneuver, it ends when you are done, there's a gap which is nobody's turn, then the next person's turn starts, then there's a gap... and after the gap after the last person other than you, your turn comes around again and it's 1 second after your last one started.

Part of the problem is that not all GURPS writers have quite the same concept of turns though, and with spells the rules changed between 3rd and 4th editions and Magic didn't get a proper playtest to clean up some of the legacy text.

But the intent with spells with short casting times in 4e is generally agreed to be you can cast them without being interrupted unless somebody is Waiting - casting a 1 turn spell takes your entire action, but goes into effect before the next person acts.

[mr beer]

Originally Posted by malloyd

I continue to insist that it's much easier to understand GURPS turn sequence if you think of turns as having no particular duration. Your turn starts when you choose a maneuver, it ends when you are done, there's a gap which is nobody's turn, then the next person's turn starts, then there's a gap... and after the gap after the last person other than you, your turn comes around again and it's 1 second after your last one started.

My experience is that this makes GURPS combat much easier to understand and run rather than trying to do it by 'rounds' in a D&D sense.

Seems to me that there's a physics analogy here, like you understand what is going on in the universe of moving objects by using the frame of reference of a particular body rather than a (fictional) static point.

[ericbsmith]

Originally Posted by malloyd

Your turn starts when you choose a maneuver, it ends when you are done, there's a gap which is nobody's turn, then the next person's turn starts, then there's a gap... and after the gap after the last person other than you, your turn comes around again and it's 1 second after your last one started.

Part of the problem is that in 4th Edition there are two different concepts for "end of your turn." There's the end of the active part of your turn, that is the end of when you get to do stuff; and the end of your turn, where the choices you made continue to affect your defenses until the beginning of your next turn.

Most active things you do, including casting spells, take effect before or at the end of the active part of your turn. This is just before you "pass turn" to the next player.

Most passive things, such as spell effects wearing off, happen at the actual end of your turn aka at the beginning of your next turn.

The intent behind allowing spell effects to happen during the active part of your turn in 4th Edition is to allow Mages to do stuff during their turn without having to wait for everybody else to take their actions before their spell stuff gets to happen, which keeps Mages involved in the action. Unfortunately, as you say, some of the rules implications of this weren't fixed/playtested, especially in GURPS Magic.

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by ericbsmith

Part of the problem is that in 4th Edition there are two different concepts for "end of your turn." There's the end of the active part of your turn, that is the end of when you get to do stuff; and the end of your turn, where the choices you made continue to affect your defenses until the beginning of your next turn.

Most active things you do, including casting spells, take effect before or at the end of the active part of your turn. This is just before you "pass turn" to the next player.

Most passive things, such as spell effects wearing off, happen at the actual end of your turn aka at the beginning of your next turn.

The intent behind allowing spell effects to happen during the active part of your turn in 4th Edition is to allow Mages to do stuff during their turn without having to wait for everybody else to take their actions before their spell stuff gets to happen, which keeps Mages involved in the action. Unfortunately, as you say, some of the rules implications of this weren't fixed/playtested, especially in GURPS Magic.

To elaborate on this If you want to force a concentration check to disrupt the casting of a 1 second Spell, you must use a wait maneuver to do so, and not during the non active part where defense modifiers concentration maneuver still apply.

This is part of the trade off of the minimum casting time of 1 second on spells in 4e [not have free action spells like 3e]

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by GWJ

So I don't know which statement is true, because I think rules from BS and Magic are mutually exclusive in this case...

As ericbsmith says, it's best to think of a Player's turn as having two components "active" and "reactive". The active part is when you make active use skill rolls, in this case the spell skill roll. The reactive part is when you perform defenses, make retreats, etc.

The reason for this lines up with what it says on Magic pg 7, the spell's casting cannot thus be interrupted (at least not 1 second casting time spells), excepting by Characters that have taken Wait Maneuvers.

[Gollum]

The FAQ 3.414 answers to that question precisely and even says why authors chose to do it that way in 4th edition.

[GodBeastX]

Originally Posted by GWJ

So I got it - my turn starts when I'm choosing maneuver, and ends when I'm going to choose my second maneuver, and actions of all other characters are still in my turn.

BUT



So even if I'm casting spell with duration of 1 second, I'm rolling not at the end of my "acting part of my turn", but immediately before my NEXT turn?

I found also:


So I don't know which statement is true, because I think rules from BS and Magic are mutually exclusive in this case...

If you read the magic book examples it explains it. Top of Page 8 in red text in GURPS Magic.

Example: Patrick wants to cast
Create Fire, a one-second spell. On his
turn, Patrick says, “I’m concentrating
on Create Fire.” This uses his entire
turn. He then rolls the dice for his
spell. If he succeeds, he creates fire –
but either way, Patrick’s turn ends.
Aidan, standing next to him, cannot
try to disrupt the spell unless he took
the Wait maneuver before Patrick’s
turn began.

That should clear it up.