Parry a Slam?

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

Once you get that problem heeled you should be back on the dance floor...

Aren't you worried of the very idea of seeing heeled DouglasCole, particularly trying to dance?

[roguebfl]

I half remember an alternative of use some function of BL rather than ST for weights but I can't quite remember it.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by roguebfl

I half remember an alternative of use some function of BL rather than ST for weights but I can't quite remember it.

It was always BL/2 and BL/10 for slams and strikes, respectively. To give the same values as the regular rule at ST 10.

[Railstar]

Originally Posted by stilleon

I was playing GURPS this weekend. The GM had a ST 12 dude slam me. I am a fencer, armed with a saber. So he comes at me and I decide my options. Turns out parry is on the table, but the GM warns me that I might break my saber because the slammer is considered a heavy weapon.

Here is my problem with these rules. The slammer weighs about 150lbs, lets say. All his motion contains a lot of energy because of his mass. A saber is a weapon with a lot less mass. Seems to me that a saber (or any sword) would find it impossible to deflect the mass of the slammer. Why?

So, it seems to me that the rules should have the parry automatically fail unless there are exceptional circumstances.

This is actually covered under the Parrying Heavy Weapons rule - you cannot parry a weapon with an effective weight (ST in the case of a slam) higher than your Basic Lift (or BLx2 for a two-handed weapon).

So you can use a sabre to deflect a human attempting to Slam you, but don't try it against the horse.

That said, the Slams with weapons or Shield Rush rules would apply unless the guy is seriously trying to shoulder-charge someone in a sword-fight.

I think I remember parrying a slam described as a "hayforking" motion, where you redirect the energy of their charge aside by angling the weapon so their charge just slides off.

[fifiste]

Someone enthusiastically rushing someone else holding a smallish pointy metal thingy which the latter tries to interpose between them should quite often end with a failure from both sides. The rusher getting a pointy thing in his guts and ruhsee slammed hard and landed on. For a failed or successfull parry action this seems to not be any of the results in GURPS. Probably only be something that could be described after using GURPS mechanic of making a ready action to hit if somene moving onto you.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by fifiste

Someone enthusiastically rushing someone else holding a smallish pointy metal thingy which the latter tries to interpose between them should quite often end with a failure from both sides. The rusher getting a pointy thing in his guts and ruhsee slammed hard and landed on. For a failed or successfull parry action this seems to not be any of the results in GURPS. Probably only be something that could be described after using GURPS mechanic of making a ready action to hit if somene moving onto you.

What you just described would be a Stop Hit against a Slam... not a Parry.

[Tomsdad]

I think the issue with parrying heavy object breaking your weapon, is unless you are actually physically attached to your weapon, your grip will be weaker then your weapon which means your grip will 'break/fail' before your weapon does.

So barring odd exceptions like weapons braced against floors / walls* etc, a the risk should be being disarmed or being made unready not breaking your weapon.

This is especially true for relatively slow moving attacks like human slams.


However I believe Douglas Cole is working on some alternative rules for this?


*where the wall / floor is stronger than the weapon

[Michael Cule]

I think the Stop Thrust is likely to do serious damage to the slammer (I certainly wouldn't rush at someone carrying a pointy thing unless I were wearing damn heavy armour) but the Slam would probably go through with an appropriate penalty for all that pain.

Rules as Written require a Wait to brace for a stop thrust but if you can see the slammer coming I'd say you've got the time to do that. If you're unaware or boggled by surprise then you don't.

So the guy with the flimsy sword's options are:

Stop Thrust and hope you drop him or slow his attack enough that the collision won't matter. Can you also dodge/parry? I'd say not: you're sacrificing that chance to use your enemy's momentum against him. Maybe going for a leg might make better tactical sense.

Dodge. And if you can make it Acrobatic or retreating do so.

Parry. And hope your expensive skinny sword doesn't snap.

[Skarg]

The first GURPS combat rules (Man to Man, first edition, maybe 2nd edition) had a Stop Thrust (optional?) rule, which is basically that if you've got a ready thrusting hand weapon which can parry, and someone advances towards you into range, you can use a parry as a stop thrust attack during their movement, which if it hits and they fail to defend (obviously if they use a Retreat defense, that stops their forward move), does maximum damage.

Going even further back, as veterans of The Fantasy Trip (GURPS' ancestor), this seemed natural or even tame, as the TFT equivalent is you get +2 to hit and do double damage when someone charges up your polearm (but it only applies to spears and polearms in TFT).

At any rate, it definitely seems to me that if I have a hand weapon ready enough to parry, and someone tries to slam or grapple me from the front, I would certainly think I'm going to have a very good opportunity to hit them with the ready weapon as they try, and it would be at a major advantage compared to trying to hit someone standing back a bit and trying not to get hit. Trying to come right at someone is basically offering your body and some momentum, making a solid hit easy. If they're in heavy armor, that might work out, but otherwise, it seems like an invitation to consequences beyond even a free normal attack. Seems like there should be both to-hit and damage bonuses, as well as the ability to attack as they do it.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

However I believe Douglas Cole is working on some alternative rules for this?

Submitted these a long time ago, so if they pass muster, they'll appear in Pyramid. If not, they'll appear on my blog, but that can be a long time in the dark.