[Low-tech] Historical "enemies"

[John Smith]

Ok.
So basically, the idea of this thread is to come up with quick stats for typical soldiers or guards (or criminals) the PCs might face in a TL 1-4 historical or IW campaign setting. This was inspired by the Roman Legionary loadout in Low-tech.

Egyptian New Kingdom soldier
ST 10 1d-2/1d BL 20 HP 10
DX 10
HT 10 FP 10
IQ 10 Will 10 Per 10

Skills: Spear-11, Shield-12, Bow-11, Knife-11, Soldier/TL1-11
Equipment: Bronze spear($40); Light Medium Shield($45); Short Bow($50); Cheap bronze long knife($48); Cheap medium layered leather vest (Protects the torso, DR2, $88).
Attacks: Spear (one-handed) 1d imp, reach 1*; (two-handed) 1d+1 imp, reach 1,2*; Shield, 1d-2 cr, reach 1; Knife, 1d-1 cut, reach 1 or 1d imp, reach C,1; Bow, 1d imp, acc1, range 150/200, shots 1(2), Bulk -6.
Defenses: Block-11; spear or knife parry-10; Dodge 10.

Classical Hoplite (Professional)
ST 11 1d-1/1d+1 BL 24 HP 11
DX 10
HT 11 FP 11
IQ 10 Will 10 Per 10

Skills: Spear-12, Shield-12, Shortsword-11, Soldier/TL2-12, Shield Wall Training perk
Equipment: Iron long spear ($60); Argive shield($120,DB 2, +1 if standing in formation); Shortsword($400); Cheap Light Bronze Corinthian helm w/padding ($495; DR3 to skull and face); Heavy hardened leather cuirass($250, DR3); Heavy hardened leather right arm protection($63, DR3); Heavy hardened leather greaves($500, DR3); Sandals($25).
Attacks: Spear, 1d+1 imp, reach 2,3*; Shield, 1d-1 cr, reach 1; Shortsword, 1d+1 cut or 1d imp, both reach 1.
Defenses: Block-11 (12 when in formation); Parry-11 with the spear or -10 with the sword(+1 when in formation); Dodge-10 (11 when in formation).

Genoese Crossbowman
ST 11 1d-1/1d+1 BL 24 HP 11
DX 11
HT 10 FP 10
IQ 10 Will 10 Per 11

Skills: Crossbow-13; Soldier/TL3-12; Fast-draw(Arrow)-11; Broadsword-11
Equipment: Fine crossbow ($600, rated ST 14); Thrusting Broadsword($600); Fine Mail vest ($900; DR 4*, -2v. crushing); Pavise with folding legs($160; cover DR 10)
Attacks: Crossbow,2d imp (Adjusted from 1d+4), Acc 4, Range 280/350, Shots 1(7, -1 w/Fast-draw roll), Bulk -6; Broadsword, 1d+2 cut or 1d+1 imp.
Defenses:Parry-8 and Dodge-8; uses Defensive Attacks in melee; the pavise.

High Medieval Spearman
ST 11 1d-1/1d+1 BL 24 HP 11
DX 10
HT 10 FP 10
IQ 10 Will 10 Per 10

Skills: Spear-11, Shield-12, Axe-Mace-10, Soldier/TL3-11, Shield Wall Training perk
Equipment: Long spear ($60); Kite Shield ($120, DB 3); Small Axe ($45); Cheap plate pot helm w/padding ($130, DR4, 3.6 lbs.); Cheap fine mail shirt ($360, DR3* -2 V. crushing, 15 lbs.).
Attacks: Spear, 1d+1 imp, reach 2,3*; Shield, 1d-1 cr, reach 1; Small Axe, 1d+2 cut, reach 1.
Defenses: Block-12; Spear parry 11U; Axe parry 11U; Dodge 11.

Japanese Ashigaru (Sengoku period a.k.a. 16th century)
ST 10 1d-2/1d BL 20 HP 10
DX 10
HT 10 FP 10
IQ 10 Will 10 Per 10

Skills: Soldier/TL4-11; either Spear-12 or Guns(Musket)/TL4-12 and Fast-draw(ammo)/TL4-11; Two-Handed Sword-11; Broadsword-10.
Equipment: Long Yari with L-shaped head ($70) or Teppo ($170); Cheap Light (using stats for Late) Katana ($220); Cheap Medium segmented plate torso armor ($360, DR3, 24 lbs); Cheap Medium segmented plate thighguards ($160, DR3, 11 lbs, protects legs on 5-6 );Cheap Medium segmented plate arms ($180, DR3, 12 lbs);Cheap Medium segmented plate gauntlets ($36, DR3, 2,4 lbs); Cheap light plate pot helm with jingasa and padding ($102, DR3 to skull, protects face on 1 or on 1,5 if attacked from above)
Attacks: Yari (always two-handed), 1d+1 imp, reach 2,3* or Teppo, 1d+2 pi+, Acc 2, Range 45/500, shots 1(55, -10 with successful fast-draw roll), Bulk-5; Katana(two hands), 1d+2 cut or 1d-1 imp, (one hand) 1d+1 cut or 1d-1 imp, all reach 1.
Defenses: Spear Parry 9, Sword parry 8, Dodge 10.

If you complain about the hoplite wearing leather armor, please remember that even cheap bronze light plate is insanely expensive.

Of course, feel free to post your own ideas!

[ErhnamDJ]

Why all the leather? Is that supposed to represent a linothorax?

Also, I'd probably give those hoplites the Shield Wall Training perk, and try to do something to make that damage somewhat realistic.

You can use the altered damage values for the crossbows, but the options are limited for the hand-to-hand weapons. I guess if you wanted to shove a square peg through the round hole, you could buy the ST way down, then buy up HP and Lifting ST. Your hoplites are doing 1d+3 AoA (Strong) with those spears. Or is it 1d+4? Are they using those in a reversed grip? There's really very little reason to bother with armor against those damage levels. And wait until you start giving them the heavy spear, which adds even more damage.

[John Smith]

1. No. They are supposed to represent the boiled cowhide armor some hoplites did wear. Also, the REAL linothorax is actually bronze plate faced with linen. All-linen armor is plain ridiculous, as is thinking hoplites held their spears in Reverse Grip.
2. My bad. I forgot to add it; the medieval spearman should have it, too.
3. AoA (Strong) is, on the battlefield, one of the best ways to get killed. The spears are, of course, used in normal grip. And the DR 3 armor makes the average spear wound go from deadly (1d+1, avg. 4.5 damage, 9 injury) to survivable (avg. 1.5 damage, 3 injury) with a 1 in 3 chance of not doing any. Seems good enough. Also, heavy spears are two-handed only, so a hoplite wouldn't use one. Finally, if they had really good armor, why bother with spears?

[jason taylor]

Shield wall training? I thought the point of a phalanx was that even farmers can put together a formidable one?

[ErhnamDJ]

Originally Posted by John Smith

2. My bad. I forgot to add it; the medieval spearman should have it, too.

Maybe give them Hiking and Fit as well? Are these supposed to represent professional soldiers? Or are they farmers fighting when there's not a whole lot else to do, but who will be walking home, win or lose, when it's time to tend the crops?

If these hoplites are supposed to be your elite guys, I'd probably increase their skills a little, and then have a different template for the rest who have come along to pad out the numbers.

AoA (Strong) is, on the battlefield, one of the best ways to get killed.

Is that really the case with long spears? Even when your buddy has Shield-Wall Training and can cover you?

I imagine it would depend quite a lot on who you were fighting (heavily armored hoplites vs Persians, or lightly armored hoplites vs other Greeks), and on the individual warrior's preference. I think that the farther away your opponent is, the more likely you are to AoA. Can only the men at the front attack? Or are the ones in the lines behind them able to attack from there as well? Certainly once we switch over to the sarissa, there's quite a lot of AoAing going on, yes? Even with only the long spear, they're attacking someone who is potentially nine feet away from them.

I don't think we're going to get very close to modeling a hoplite battle with GURPS. We can do individual combat, but once you get more than a few thousand men together, things start to break down.

Also, heavy spears are two-handed only, so a hoplite wouldn't use one.

Low-Tech says the heavy spear is the Greek dory. I'd probably consider that to be the long spear, though, at least when we're talking about the one-handed weapon. It's possible to use the heavy spear one-handed, but you have to do things like raise their ST to 13 or 14 and give them the Huge Weapons perk, and also assume that their skill is 14 or 15, rather than 12 or 13.

Finally, if they had really good armor, why bother with spears?

What are their other options? What weapons could they have afforded other than spears? Axes? Maces? You get chewed up by spears if you try to use those.

[ErhnamDJ]

Originally Posted by jason taylor

Shield wall training? I thought the point of a phalanx was that even farmers can put together a formidable one?

They're still going to have to have enough training to put some points into their main skills, though, aren't they? What's most important? Spear, shield, soldier, hiking?

Do you think it would be unreasonable to say that those farmers have two points into each of those, and Shield-Wall Training on top of it?

What's the bare minimum?

Two points into Spear, one point into Shield, one into Soldier, another into Hiking, and Shield-Wall Training? When you see numbers like ten thousand men showing up, what do you think the average one of them is looking like?

[John Smith]

I don't know a lot about Classical Greek warfare, to be honest, but my hoplites should represent some sort of well-trained militia, still citizens or farmers in everyday life but trained to fight properly. Likewise, the medieval guy is a peasant who has been drilled by his liege's men-at-arms during a couple winters (When there isn't much farm work to do) to serve, if the neecessity arises, in a feudal army (Think William the Conqueror's infantry). He could be fighting for pay, because he was conscripted, to defend his lord's castle, or to atone for his sins by joining his liege on a crusade.

Also these stats are mostly meant to simulate generic "guards" that might attack the PCs in small groups for various reasons. Simulating battles is, I think, well beyond the scope of GURPS (that's why I think Mass Combat is pointless).
And I do think, if there was compulsory service for everyone, that farmers could have that level of training. Dedicated soldiers would add a few skill levels.

[jason taylor]

Given that knowing how to fight in a phalanx was a default skill for any Greek citizen with Average Status, maybe Soldier skill would cover it rather then give it a special skill of it's own. Unless there are enough barbarians in the campaign for there to be a need to emphasize skill at the Greek fighting style.

[jason taylor]

I believe there were Philosophers who thought Martial Arts to be of minimal use because the probability of being in a fight that was not a shoving match was minimal.

[John Smith]

You are right, although most conflicts consisted of the men in the front ranks of both armies (those who actually knew how to fight; we're talking small armies here) killing a few dozen of each other then the least disciplined side (or the one that took the most casualties) would rout without being pursued. Often, the outnumbered side would just walk away and the "winners" would be recognised as winning the dispute that started the war. In bigger wars with combined arms, things were, of course, different - but most Greeks never saw one.