[Loadouts: Low-Tech Armor] Some armor weight-cost-coverage errors that need errata?

[phayman53]

I just got Loadouts: Low-Tech Armor a little while ago and it is a fantastic resource. That said, there are a few things in it that are not clear to me, mainly that some of the weights and hit location coverage does not add-up in my understanding. I mainly found this when I was looking at the Byzantine loadouts on pages 21-22, but I also have a question about the Norman Milite armor on page 26.

Skoutatos Aventail:
The text says that the iron helme (kassidion) sometimes had a leather aventail. The stats for the aventail are:

Location: face (back), neck; DR: 3/1cr; Cost: $7; Weight: 0.8.

The problem with this is that these stats do not make sense to me for any type of armor or material. The DR stats listed are of Light Mail (DR 3/1cr), but the cost and weight of the aventail are of a Medium Layered Leather lobsterback (3% of $220 = $6.6 --> $7; 3% of 26 lbs = 0.78 lbs --> 0.8 lbs). I just assume that the split DR note was an error (someone forgot and thought it was light mail) and that it should simply be DR 3. However, the location note specifically says “face (back), neck”, which to me should mean that it should have the stats for a full aventail (5% torso armor, covering the whole neck) and the back of the face (another 5% of torso armor, though this would include ear coverage).

However, this raises another problem with how size and coverage of aventails, lobsterbacks and helms are figured in the first place. In other places (such as the Japanese Kabuto loadout on Instant Armor pg. 18-19 and in the Samurai loadouts in Loadouts: LT) lobsterback, which only cover the back of the neck, and aventails, which cover the whole thing, can be attached directly to the bottom of a skullcap helm that does not offer any protection to the back of the face location. I know that basic says that the face is not hit from behind on a random hit location roll, it is a skull hit instead—which means there is no face location on the back of the head. However, MA and LT seem to change this, and LT specifically seems to indicate in the Bascinet description (pg. 111) that the bascinet is 25% of the cost/weight of the torso location (instead of the skullcap's 20%) because it covers area 5 (face) from the back but not the front (except for the ears). So it seems to me that the face location, at least in the LT supplements, has been divided into a 10% of the torso location area that is split about 6%-4% front and back. So why can aventails be attached directly to a skullcap without costing any extra weight to cover the back of the face location? And if there is no back of the face location, why are bascinets so much heavier than skullcaps (coifs are also too heavy in this case)? If they are just skullcaps with ear protection they should be about 21% of torso weight/cost or they should cover the back of the neck too at their current weight/cost (and coifs should only be 26% for skull, ears, neck).

Byzantine Kataphractos Aventail and Coif:
The Byzantine Kataphractos has the same problem with the aventail as the Skoutatos above, only with light mail instead of layered leather (this time the Cost and Weight match the DR stats). However, the Kataphractos also has a problem with the stats for the coif, which is not described at all in the descriptive text for the Kataphractos. The stat line for the coif says:

Location: head, neck (back); DR: 5/3cr; Cost: $360; Weight: 5.4, Don: 5.

The problem is that the coif is 30% of the cost and weight of Torso Heavy Mail, which would be correct for a normal coif (which covers the whole neck), except the location description excludes the throat by saying it only covers the neck (back). This means that the coif should be 28% of the cost and weight of Torso Heavy Mail. Now, the coif does say it covers the whole head, which means it may be intended to cover the skull, back of the neck, and face (which would be accurate for some Byzantine Kataphractoi). However, this should be 33% of Torso unless it only covers part of the face, but there is no location notes to explain which part. Is the neck (back) note simply a misprint and it should be a normal coif? Or is the weight/cost wrong? Or does it cover part of the face? Or is it some combination of the above? Also, if the coif is only meant to cover the back of the neck, then is the throat exposed or is that what the aventail is supposed to cover (in which case it should be called ventail)?

Norman Milite Coif, Ventail, and Padded Cap and Helmet:
The first thing thing that appears to be a problem with the Norman loadout is that they are given a helm with the cost and weight of a bascinet with a nasal, where the information I have seen indicates that they should be wearing a skullcap with a nasal instead (though I know LT says they had bascinets as well). Also, the location note for the helm says nothing about the back of the face, it specifically says skull.

The second problem is a simple one with the padded cap, it has a cost of $130, it seems someone accidentally added an extra 0 to the cost. For bascinet padding (see above), it should be $13 (rounded up from $12.50). The only reason for this that I can see is that the padded cap is priced for a single-piece construction as well, but then it really should be $125 instead of $130, but there is nothing in the text that says that the padding is single-piece, only the helme itself. So is this a typo or should it be single-piece?

The third problem is both with the coif and the ventail, both are too expensive and heavy for their listed coverage. Their stats are as follows:

Coif: Location: head, neck (back); DR: 5/3cr; Cost: $390; Weight: 5.9 lbs.
Ventail: Location: jaw, neck (front); DR: 5/3cr; Cost: $60; Weight 0.9 lbs.

The ventail makes sense if you stat it as 5% of the torso armor cost/weight, but LT says it should be 3%(though I admit, this seems too light to me—it makes sense that it would be 3% for the throat and 2% for the jaw). Did Loadouts errata the cost/weight percentage for the ventail from what is in LT without actually explicitly stating so?

The coif is more challenging, for DR: 5/3cr armor (heavy mail), its listed stats for cost/weight are about 32.5% of torso armor. Where did the extra 2.5% come from (or 3% if it is from rounding)? And shouldn't it be 28% of the torso because the location says it only covers the back of the neck? Now it is an extra ~5%, but there is explicitly only ear coverage according to the location notes, so there is no face coverage. So why the extra 5%? I suppose it could be Fine Mail with Padding, but then the weight is right (.28*6+.28*15=5.88lbs), but the cost is wrong (.28*$50+.28*$900=$266), unless the padding is all one piece, then the price works out about right (.28*$50*10+.28*$900=$392), but the weight is wrong (.28*6*.75+.28*15=5.46 lbs). So is it fine mail with single-piece padding? If so, it would have been nice to have been explicitly told this, especially since it is attached to the Heavy Mail Hauberk. But even in this case, the weight needs to be changed.


I really do love this supplement, but either I am not understanding how some things were calculated or there seems to be some calculation errors, especially with head and neck armor. This is definitely understandable, as these are the most complicated parts of the armor to calculate weight and cost for, but I would like to know, am I am understanding things correctly and these things are errors, or am I not understanding some detail of how these armor pieces were calculated?

[Rasna]

LTL is an excellent workpiece, but I've noticed too some math errors, for example in the Parthian Cataphractus loadout (Scale corselet, which covers torso, thighs and knees, is calculated as being 200% of torso armor instead of 150%).

For helmets with nape coverage but without ear coverage, the Nape Guard should be 20% of base Pot Helm (4% of torso armor) and covers only the back of the face. Could be the upper part of the Lobsterback. Combined with Low-Tech Lobsterback, it's 7% of torso armor and covers face (back) and neck (back).

Another problem comes with Visors. A complete Visor (5% of torso armor) should cover the entire face from the front except the ears (face 1-2, 4-6 in 1-d), not all the face except the jaw (face 2-6 on 1d), while a shorter one (4% of torso armor) should cover the front of the face except both jaw and ears (face 2, 4-6 on 1d).

[DanHoward]

Yes there are some errors in the calculations. There would have been a lot more without the effort of Doug and his team.

[DouglasCole]

We had to duplicate hundreds of pieces of armor. Steven let me recruit a bunch of other dedicated folks, and one of the team built an automated spreadsheet that did a lot of the work for us, but may have had a few errors or some assumptions that didn't work out for particular pieces. Each piece though was built three times: once by Dan in the ms, and then twice more by two other people.

This suggests a systematic error in how the sheet was set up. The best bet here is to do what you did: show your work, propose a simple change, and then submit it as errata. I can't guarantee it'll get changed, but I'm positive that unless those steps are followed, it won't!

Thanks for digging into the book, though. Lots of moving parts in there.