[Powers][Psionic Powers] Stacking an ability and a raw advantage?

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by PK

For the most part, they can. As I said above, if you wanted to turn Voice into a 10 points/level advantage, with each level giving +2 to reactions when you're heard and +2 to a few skills, it wouldn't break anything. If a power's ability includes Daredevil and you already have Daredevil, you should just get +2 in crazy situations, because Daredevil would work just fine as a leveled advantage, too.

The only real discrepancy is Combat Reflexes (CR). As written, it represents a huge point break on what we charge for the individual components. The intent is that buying just CR gives you that discount, but if you want to beef it up further, you have to take the much more expensive route of adding Enhanced Defenses, Fearlessness, etc. So declaring that CR is now a 15 point/level advantage would tend to invalidate the concept of Enhanced Defenses -- particularly Enhanced Dodge!

That said, the specific situation here only has the potential to, in effect, grant "two levels" of CR, not many. And on top of that, the only benefit being doubled up is the defense bonus, none of the other great stuff. So in the case of Combat Sense + Combat Reflexes, I don't think it'll be a balance issue. I'm fine with allowing them to stack in my games, and I'm happy to endorse the same in anyone else's.

Right. I mean I've done this because that's how I read the rules - I'm kind of bummed it's not 100% RAW (because I read it wrong) but I don't think it breaks anything. This is how I've been doing it practically since day one for my campaigns - it's the only thing that makes sense.

I really could swear reading somewhere where Kromm talks about Combat Reflexes and Burst Reflexes (from Bio-Tech) stacking.

[the_matrix_walker]

Originally Posted by PK

For the most part, they can. As I said above, if you wanted to turn Voice into a 10 points/level advantage, with each level giving +2 to reactions when you're heard and +2 to a few skills, it wouldn't break anything. If a power's ability includes Daredevil and you already have Daredevil, you should just get +2 in crazy situations, because Daredevil would work just fine as a leveled advantage, too.

The only real discrepancy is Combat Reflexes (CR). As written, it represents a huge point break on what we charge for the individual components. The intent is that buying just CR gives you that discount, but if you want to beef it up further, you have to take the much more expensive route of adding Enhanced Defenses, Fearlessness, etc. So declaring that CR is now a 15 point/level advantage would tend to invalidate the concept of Enhanced Defenses -- particularly Enhanced Dodge!

That said, the specific situation here only has the potential to, in effect, grant "two levels" of CR, not many. And on top of that, the only benefit being doubled up is the defense bonus, none of the other great stuff. So in the case of Combat Sense + Combat Reflexes, I don't think it'll be a balance issue. I'm fine with allowing them to stack in my games, and I'm happy to endorse the same in anyone else's.

And if a particular GM isn't happy with combining them (like me), I recommend swapping CR out of the Psi ability and replacing it with a level of Enhanced Dodge. That will provide a more RAW compatible option that doesn't require a whole character rebuild.

[Anthony]

This is mostly a problem for advantages that are oddly priced or have weird consequences when stacked. Combat Reflexes is a notable case for being differently priced than its components (I hesitate to call it underpriced; 15 points for +1 to all active defenses doesn't bother me, and stacking other effects of combat reflexes doesn't matter all that much).

[Gurps Fan]

Thank you all for replies. I agree with PK.

In fact, I'm aware of the existence of the Multiple Copies of the Same Advantage rule (Powers, p. 12), and I think that the GURPS-legal method is to pick the cheaper of the two advantages/abilities in question, then divide its cost by 5, and say their bonuses don't stack.

However, one of the main points of Psionic Powers is to look like there is a brand-new shopping list of abilities, without actually introducing "new advantages". Players should be free to buy psi abilities "with no knowledge of power-building necessary" (Psionic Powers, p. 3). It's bothering for players to check every one of existing abilities and recalculate them by the Multiple Copies rule every time they learn a new ability. Just picking Combat Reflexes and Combat Sense 1 from the trait tables, paying the listed numbers of points, and declaring "Their bonuses stack." is much simpler.

[Gurps Fan]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

I really could swear reading somewhere where Kromm talks about Combat Reflexes and Burst Reflexes (from Bio-Tech) stacking.

Burst Reflexes (Bio-Tech, p. 48) is actually Basic Speed 1.00 modified with Costs Fatigue. It and Combat Reflexes naturally add up to +2 active defense.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Gurps Fan

Burst Reflexes (Bio-Tech, p. 48) is actually Basic Speed 1.00 modified with Costs Fatigue. It and Combat Reflexes naturally add up to +2 active defense.

Well then. That answers that...

[the_matrix_walker]

Originally Posted by Gurps Fan

Burst Reflexes (Bio-Tech, p. 48) is actually Basic Speed 1.00 modified with Costs Fatigue. It and Combat Reflexes naturally add up to +2 active defense.

+2 to dodge, not +2 to parry or block.