Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-08-2011, 04:12 PM   #21
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: 5.56mm MK318 mod 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Cade View Post
Hah. They don't mention anything about the bullet fragmenting against soft targets, but the image for firing through a windshield certainly suggests that fragmenting is a design goal for the round. I also notice that it has increased (unspecified amount) chamber pressure, though presumably they already know the M4 can handle the increase.
Anthony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2011, 04:17 PM   #22
lexington
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Default Re: 5.56mm MK318 mod 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Cade View Post
You are correct, I didn't look at my own link. :-)

All about the new pills:

http://www.aschq.army.mil/ac/aais/io...2137343750.pdf

-Provides improved, consistent effects against soft targets and CQB performance
-Significantly increases range of consistent effects against soft targets
Reading this in detail (and taking it at face value) it seems like GURPs would describe it as a BB-AP bullet that still does full pi damage.

[Edit] I get it doing 2d+6 (2) pi, assuming the increased pressure gives it a tiny bump in damage.

Last edited by lexington; 06-08-2011 at 04:23 PM.
lexington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2011, 04:30 PM   #23
Sam Cade
 
Sam Cade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Down in a holler
Default Re: 5.56mm MK318 mod 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
Hah. They don't mention anything about the bullet fragmenting against soft targets,

"consistent effects against soft targets and CQB performance" should be read as "fragments more often, through a greater velocity range than the old 62gr" since according to the link:
Quote:
–The M855A1 is NOT yaw dependant
With no yaw, you depend on fragmentation to wound.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
but the image for firing through a windshield certainly suggests that fragmenting is a design goal for the round.
When you shoot through car glass the bullet deflects, hitting way high or way low depending on which way you are shooting.

Presumably, the 855A1 is fragile enough for just the tip to be deflected, tearing the bullet apart, and allowing the slug to continue along the initial sight line. *shrug*
__________________
Doin' what I can with what I got.-Burt Gummer

http://www.jpfo.org/
كافر
Sam Cade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2011, 04:36 PM   #24
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: 5.56mm MK318 mod 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Cade View Post
"consistent effects against soft targets and CQB performance" should be read as "fragments more often, through a greater velocity range than the old 62gr"
Well, yeah. Just pointing out how they're not mentioning details.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Cade View Post
Presumably, the 855A1 is fragile enough for just the tip to be deflected, tearing the bullet apart, and allowing the slug to continue along the initial sight line. *shrug*
That's how I interpreted the picture, though it might just deflect by a different amount.
Anthony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2011, 09:04 PM   #25
General Lee
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Somewhere between Cape Horn and Zenith Point
Default Re: 5.56mm MK318 mod 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by lexington View Post
Yeah, just call it match grade or barrier blind. I think the Mk318 is would be barrier blind and solid. An OTM for a snipers weapon is more likely to be treated by the rules as match grade and solid.
So, like the M885A1, Match-like performance doesn`t grant Match bonus for GURPS, right?

And, even that certain type of bullet have OT, this not means that automatically the round will be more accurate.

But, could a bullet be BB and Match?



Quote:
Originally Posted by lexington View Post
Ah, interesting. The new M855A1 is supposed to fragment well even though its solid steel.
If I get it right, its not a traditional fragmentation but a separation of the core and the jacket that improves the chances to hitting the target.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lexington View Post
Militaries abide by the law because if you actually come out and say that you're not "following the rules" anymore it would be a PR disaster. If it presented a huge advantage the Hague Convention would be quickly swept away.
In CNN-factor lies the weakness of all modern operations. It puts a lot of political pressure on Commanders. Psycological warfare arena. Albeit, sometimes you could use real-time or near-real time coverage to confuse the opposition side, see the "strategic faint" in Kuwait in 1991.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
Far as I know 'bimetallic' rounds are just marketing-speak to get people to overpay for bullets; pretty much no exotic expanding bullet significantly outperforms hollowpoint.
Bingo. You have it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lexington View Post
Reading this in detail (and taking it at face value) it seems like GURPs would describe it as a BB-AP bullet that still does full pi damage.

[Edit] I get it doing 2d+6 (2) pi, assuming the increased pressure gives it a tiny bump in damage.
M885A1 surely looks like an AP round, but I don`t know if BB and AP could be matched together.

You automatically increase the capability of penetration by being AP, and under the rules, descriptions, in p. 30 ( tactical shooting) there is no difference between both types how they deal with light cover, like windshields.
General Lee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2011, 09:14 PM   #26
lexington
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Default Re: 5.56mm MK318 mod 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by General Lee View Post
But, could a bullet be BB and Match?
BB is allowed for "solid or HP rifle rounds", being Match Grade doesn't make them cease to be solid of HP if they started that way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by General Lee View Post
M885A1 surely looks like an AP round, but I don`t know if BB and AP could be matched together.

You automatically increase the capability of penetration by being AP, and under the rules, descriptions, in p. 30 ( tactical shooting) there is no difference between both types how they deal with light cover, like windshields.
BB isn't there to enhance penetration, it represents enhanced reliability in terms of wounding which the M855A1 is advertised as having. I do see, looking at it now, that AP is apparently not allowed for BB.
lexington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2011, 09:37 PM   #27
Sam Cade
 
Sam Cade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Down in a holler
Default Re: 5.56mm MK318 mod 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
Far as I know 'bimetallic' rounds are just marketing-speak to get people to overpay for bullets;
"Bimetallic" when talking bullets for the last century or so refers to a cupronickel or other copper alloy jacket.
I'm not familiar with it being used any other way.
__________________
Doin' what I can with what I got.-Burt Gummer

http://www.jpfo.org/
كافر
Sam Cade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2011, 12:42 AM   #28
Irenaeus
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Default Re: 5.56mm MK318 mod 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by General Lee View Post
Sorry, I didn`t describe correctly. IRC, the book describes a comercial bullet that boasts better fragmentation through use of new materials, not just lead and copper. I think someone commented about it in one of the threads. Actually, someone said that TRUE bimetallic rounds, as envisage by the round maker, is only matter of studies.
Just since I recently finished Scahill's book: The ammo in question is RBCD's Armor Piercing Limited Penetration rounds, distributed by Le Mas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by defensereview
The reported performance of the Le Mas Ltd. BMT APLP 85gr .45 CQB round is particularly impressive for pistol ammunition. It has a velocity of well over 2000 fps out of a 5-inch Government model 1911 pistol, and will easily penetrate NIJ level IIIa body armor. However, once it penetrates the armor, it will not over-penetrate the target. This is because the Le Mas BMT APLP .45 CQB round stays completely intact while passively penetrating non-living barriers. However, once it hits living tissue, the combination of hydrostatic pressure and and other factors (heat/temperature change, etc.) causes the bullet to go active and deflagrate inside the target, in dynamic fashion.
Source: http://www.defensereview.com/le-mas-...-applications/

I have no idea to what degree the above information is exagerrated (if at all).
Irenaeus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2011, 02:30 AM   #29
Sam Cade
 
Sam Cade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Down in a holler
Default Re: 5.56mm MK318 mod 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irenaeus View Post
I have no idea to what degree the above information is exaggerated (if at all).
Oh my.

Its pretty much all B.S. I mean, like CRAZY B.S.
__________________
Doin' what I can with what I got.-Burt Gummer

http://www.jpfo.org/
كافر
Sam Cade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2011, 02:51 AM   #30
Irenaeus
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Default Re: 5.56mm MK318 mod 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Cade View Post
Oh my.

Its pretty much all B.S. I mean, like CRAZY B.S.
Thanks. I suspected as much, but I really don't know enough about ammunition and ballistics to be making such assessments very authoritatively myself.

I've been wrong about weirder stuff before, even if the metal in a bullet reacting rapidly to heat and pressure from the human body sounded a little out there.
Irenaeus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
high tech, high-tech, modern firepower, tactical shooting

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.