[Ultratech] Citizen-grade cyberware?

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by hal

...
For those who consider viewing BLACK MIRROR - please accept my warning that the first season first episode is HIGHLY disturbing, and hits upon sensitive topics that may result in people being turned off in a big way. It almost (seriously) made me not bother to watch subsequent episodes.

I've often said that the ability to forget is far more a benefit than handicap. That's not even getting into how faulty memories are as they are always interpreted through present out of context emotional filters.

We're starting to see such a shift due to heavy social media presence making it impossible for youthful idiocies to disappear into the forgotten past. There exist fewer than around four pictures of me outside of yearbook photos since early childhood, for example.

[rkbrown419]

An important consideration might be what are people willing to risk surgery over? Is having an implanted computer really that much better than having it in your pocket linked to augmented reality contacts? The non implanted are certainly easier to get fixed or upgraded. Society might be fine with all sorts of body modifications, but will people pay to have something implanted when the next new improved model will be out in less than a year?
People also aren't likely to have healthy body parts voluntarily removed for cybernetics even if they are better because if you can do it cybernetically you can do it with a handheld or wearable gadget without any of the downsides. There are people who do want to have healthy body parts removed in real life and we generally consider them psychologically unbalanced.
Something like a biomonitor might be mandated by government or private healtcare. Implanting of smart tatoos, variskin polyskin or cyberhair might be unknown or common depending on what society will tollerate in the form of cosmetic mods. Chip slots or neural implants and briantaps might be common if their isn't a neural interface helmet or induction hemet/field available. An interface implant would likely be more tolerable than a computer implant (it won't become obolete as fast).
Neurotherapy and psych implants might be mandated as mental health treatment or societal control. I supose some people might get them voluntarily when they are seeking help with an issue.
Now if you're setting your game after a major war you might have plenty of vets arround with replaced limbs or eyes. They may also have psych and neurotherapy helping with ptsd. They'll also likely tell any punks who think the cyber is better how much they wish they had their flesh and blood parts back.

[Flyndaran]

Even that presupposes the dangers of surgery. Different settings have radically different levels of medical safety. In any realistic setting, brain surgery will always have some risk, in my opinion.
Whether mentally sound people will replace (semi) functional body parts with "improved" artificial components is not so cut and dried.
I'm certain quite a few posters here would.

Then there's also the, "well, while you're in there, could you upgrade the bits next to the screwed up part?"

[jason taylor]

The main use I see is as as a sort of tattoo with the usages of a tattoo in our time but far more flexibility. It can also be an encryption method, say carrying membership proof to activate the Claim to Hospitality of a secret society.

For normal use people have normal computers.

[The Colonel]

I suspect a big part of a lot of cyberpunk is underestimating just how dysfunctional you'd have to be to start having healthy limbs cut off and replaced with cyberware - I'd agree that typical civilian stuff should be additional function rather than replacement and upgrade (so things like AI assistants, storage and interface) and maybe cosmetic.
Having huge chunks of replacement metal installed should either be the result of a serious physical injury or a serious mental one.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by The Colonel

I suspect a big part of a lot of cyberpunk is underestimating just how dysfunctional you'd have to be to start having healthy limbs cut off and replaced with cyberware...

That's pretty judgmental. Not necessarily inaccurate though, but still man.

As a transhumanist I can't wait for "brain-in-box" tech, but I realize I'm a minority.

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

That's pretty judgmental. Not necessarily inaccurate though, but still man.

As a transhumanist I can't wait for "brain-in-box" tech, but I realize I'm a minority.

If the judgement he makes is the probable judgement of the majority the effect is the same if one is to make an estimate of what the future will look like.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by jason taylor

If the judgement he makes is the probable judgement of the majority the effect is the same if one is to make an estimate of what the future will look like.

What many emotionally think now must force how the future majority will emotionally think too?
That flies in the face of cultural changes that have happened in the past.

It's only horrifying "objectively" now, because surgery is dangerous, often coming with long term side effects, and prosthetics don't come remotely close to equating to healthy body parts.

I don't think it's at all reasonable to claim mental illness for those that want hypothetical 100% safe surgeries to replace parts with better across the board artificial ones.
The only question is how close to 100% and better across the board must tech get before it switches from insanity to poor choice to the only sane one or even necessary to function in society.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by jason taylor

If the judgement he makes is the probable judgement of the majority the effect is the same if one is to make an estimate of what the future will look like.

But is it? Who wouldn't want to slough off the frailty of the meat for the clean aesthetic of chrome? The ease of upgrading? The modularity of form and function?

To me it seems that if you don't want to improve you're holding yourself back for some... reason? I withhold calling it a regressive or dysfunctional mindset, just because I don't grok it (and as mentioned, I might be the dysfunctional one).

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

I don't think it's at all reasonable to claim mental illness for those that want hypothetical 100% safe surgeries to replace parts with better across the board artificial ones.

That and many already use "unnecessary" non-invasive "prosthetics"* all the time, once the invasive side becomes routine (surgeries without scaring, minimal healing time, almost zero failure rates) expect for implants to be more common.


* Sunglasses, cellphones, ballcaps, shoes, etc. The tools of every day life that could be permanently replaced by implants. Heck there are already people who get their eyebrows removed (electrolysis) and then tattooed back on for purely cosmetic reasons. It's not like body-modding isn't done now... just with less startling results than we'll (hypothetically) have in the (hopefully) near future.