06-20-2013, 12:37 PM | #31 | ||
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Re: [HT][TS]Tactics for realistic suppressors
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I'm pretty sure that there's some information about that, yes, though I don't remember the precise details.
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06-20-2013, 12:44 PM | #32 |
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Re: [HT][TS]Tactics for realistic suppressors
IIRC at least some modern suppressors are less to avoid anyone hearing you fire, and more to ensure that you can still hear after firing indoors.
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06-20-2013, 12:52 PM | #33 | ||
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Re: [HT][TS]Tactics for realistic suppressors
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In reality, stabbing someone more is not going to make them magically instantly dead. They'll die when they bleed out and all you're doing is making more holes for the blood to escape from. As long as you manage to open big veins and arteries with your first stab and then working the knife around, you're good. It's perfectly reasonable to rule that no amount of stabbing is going to prevent a dying character from making a dying speech, giving a dying shout or emptying his rifle into the air, at the GM's discretion. The only way to do that is to control him through a grapple while he is dying. Quote:
For that matter, realistically, you never know that they've bled to death. You hold on at least 30 seconds and up to 2 minutes so that you can be reasonably certain that the sentry is securely unconscious at the very least. And even with unmodified GURPS rules, this works. While you're grappling and/or stabbing, the sentry is going to be making HT checks to retain consciousness. And within 30 seconds, he'll fail one, because it's pretty much a given that no one will be content to Do Nothing while you bleed them out in the hope that you'll fall for his Acting. Playing dead is fine, but not while someone has a knife in your neck and is actively draining out your blood. And while instant Diagnosis in the dark is very hard, knowing when someone you hold for 30 seconds is either dead, or so unconscious that he might as well be, receives a significant bonus. The main use of holding on for a while after inflicting enough damage for a mortal wound is so that a stunned or faking sentry can't make noise. Once you're pretty sure he's unconscious (and dying) or already dead, you can let go.
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06-20-2013, 01:04 PM | #34 | |||
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Re: [HT][TS]Tactics for realistic suppressors
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I'm not proposing skipping the grappling. Obviously, that won't work. I'm saying that switching from one hand grappling and one hand stabbing to two hands grappling is not productive. I'm also not saying this is true in reality. But if it is true in GURPS but not reality, well, that's notable. Quote:
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06-20-2013, 01:07 PM | #35 |
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Seattle, WA
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Re: [HT][TS]Tactics for realistic suppressors
Have I missed it, or have you not discussed the relevance of the Vitals and Skull hit locations for the Stun/Knockdown modifier? Seems to me that the easiest way to kill a sentry is to sneak up behind him and shoot or stab him in the nape of the neck (which is really just the Skull hit location).
An AOA (Strong) with Telegraphic and whatever bonus from sneaking up (+3 from 3 seconds of Evaluate before you strike, at least), not to mention any kind of Targeted Attack training, means that you can basically expect to hit. No defense, since it's from behind. Average guy doing 1d+2 imp with the knife results in about 3 penetrating damage, or 12 injury, which forces a Stun/Knockdown roll at -10. Your average HT 11, Fit sentry (assuming that's "average"0 falls down on anything above 3-4, and goes entirely unconscious (and thus silent) on a 7 or higher! The same is basically true of the gunshot to the head. Vitals stabbings only give(s) a -5 to the S/K roll, but still, that's instant unconsciousness on a 12 or higher with stun/knockdown almost guaranteed. So, I don't get the "30 seconds of struggling" to take down a sentry. Edit: I believe you can get a further bonus for the skull stabbing if you grapple first. Maybe that's an upcoming rule in TG, but I swear I've seen it mentioned.
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06-20-2013, 01:12 PM | #36 | |
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Re: [HT][TS]Tactics for realistic suppressors
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That's largely inspired by real-world sentry takedown methods.
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06-20-2013, 01:53 PM | #37 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: [HT][TS]Tactics for realistic suppressors
Realistically, injury doesn't cause people to go unconscious except in unusual situations (which cannot realistically be achieved with a knife in one turn), so you have to read 'unconscious due to injury' as 'incapacitated'.
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06-20-2013, 01:55 PM | #38 |
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Seattle, WA
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Re: [HT][TS]Tactics for realistic suppressors
Wait, are you saying it's not realistically possible to jam a knife into a brain from behind, perhaps after grappling the head to stabilize your target? Perhaps that's a much harder thing to do than it sounds, but regardless, if it could be done, "instant unconsciousness, no sound" (assuming you catch them as they fall) is not unrealistic at all IMO.
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06-20-2013, 01:57 PM | #39 |
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Re: [HT][TS]Tactics for realistic suppressors
There's a rather unfortunate total lack of any rules anywhere for transitioning from that to actually unconscious...
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06-20-2013, 02:05 PM | #40 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: [HT][TS]Tactics for realistic suppressors
Jamming a knife into the brain from behind, then wiggling it around in the hole until you puree enough of the brain to actually eliminate function, is non-trivial and takes more than a second, and represents probably around HT*4 damage. In general, if the brain doesn't splatter, you might not have hit what you need to hit.
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Tags |
guns, sentry removal, suppressor |
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