[Thaum.] Perks per magical "style."

[Jerander]

Hi,

The general set up I have for my magic system is that:

1) Mages have access to a general, limited "Mage Power" (Magic as Powers).
2) Mages also have access to Standard Spell Magic.
3) Most SSM magic will be learned through Magical Styles.

In Thaumatology: Magical Styles, mages can buy 1 perk per 20 points in spells plus 1 style perks per 10 points in style spells.

I have a couple of questions.

1) Does Magic as Powers have a similar guideline for number of perks a mage can learn?
2) Do points spent in Magic as Powers count as points toward buying perks?
3) How hard and fast is the rule for number of perks? What is the rational behind it? Could a Rule Excemption perk be purchased to bypass this rule?

Thank you,
Jerander.

[SCAR]

Originally Posted by Jerander

Hi,

The general set up I have for my magic system is that:

1) Mages have access to a general, limited "Mage Power" (Magic as Powers).
2) Mages also have access to Standard Spell Magic.
3) Most SSM magic will be learned through Magical Styles.

In Thaumatology: Magical Styles, mages can buy 1 perk per 20 points in spells plus 1 style perks per 10 points in style spells.

I have a couple of questions.

1) Does Magic as Powers have a similar guideline for number of perks a mage can learn?
2) Do points spent in Magic as Powers count as points toward buying perks?
3) How hard and fast is the rule for number of perks? What is the rational behind it? Could a Rule Excemption perk be purchased to bypass this rule?

Thank you,
Jerander.

1. There is (currently) no official Magic as Powers products, and many of the Perks are based on the mechanics and assumptions of the standard Magic as Skills system.
2. See (1), but generally the conversion of existing Spell Skills and Spell Powers are much more costly in terms of points than skills!
3. The number is consistent with that for Martial Arts Styles and Perks, and seems like a resonable balance. As a GM you could amend the limit as you wish.
Finally NO, I don't think allowing a Rule Exemption Perk to bypass this limt is remotely sensible.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Jerander

3) How hard and fast is the rule for number of perks? What is the rational behind it? Could a Rule Excemption perk be purchased to bypass this rule?.

GURPS doesn't go in for hard and fast "Official Rules" much. You can do whatever your GM will agree too.

I personally think all the only so many perks per number of points in related stuff rules are nonsense and ignore them. Nothing has blown up, though I do ban a few perks I think are abusive, set prerequisites for some of them, and occasionally say no to totally ridiculous character designs. Not that I've ever had anybody try to convince me it makes sense to have 100 perks but no skills or anything, but if somebody did.... Charging a Rules Exemption for each one amounts to doubling the cost, which shouldn't break anything either.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by SCAR

1. There is (currently) no official Magic as Powers products, and many of the Perks are based on the mechanics and assumptions of the standard Magic as Skills system.
2. See (1), but generally the conversion of existing Spell Skills and Spell Powers are much more costly in terms of points than skills!
3. The number is consistent with that for Martial Arts Styles and Perks, and seems like a resonable balance. As a GM you could amend the limit as you wish.
Finally NO, I don't think allowing a Rule Exemption Perk to bypass this limt is remotely sensible.

What he said.
Note that one is coming out soon. Thaumatology for Chinese magic as powers.
I find it unlikely that you would need to buy more then the standard guideline for perks with a Powers based system. However as your allowing regular magic access too then as GM if you think more should be allowed its your game. The limit is just a guideline, but one that was play tested.

[Jerander]

Originally Posted by SCAR

2. See (1), but generally the conversion of existing Spell Skills and Spell Powers are much more costly in terms of points than skills!

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Could you elaborate?

Originally Posted by SCAR

Finally NO, I don't think allowing a Rule Exemption Perk to bypass this limt is remotely sensible.

May I ask why?

Originally Posted by Refplace

The limit is just a guideline, but one that was play tested.

Is there a balance issue involved? Too many perks unbalancing in some way?

Thank you,
Jerander.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Jerander

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Could you elaborate?

On this a powers build tends to be point heavy compared to magery plus skills.
Points on magery and IQ dont count toward the perk cap but points spent on powers in a powers based setting would so your likely to have a higher cap.

Is there a balance issue involved? Too many perks unbalancing in some way?

Thank you,
Jerander.

Well I am with MA Loyd on this and generally have ignored or at least not enforced a perk cap. However like anything else it can get out of hand and one advantage to a cap is it forces people to choose. That keeps them from taking the same most effective perks and adds variety.
It has never been a problem in my games but I can at least see how it could be.

[Bruno]

One of the reasons for limiting perks is otherwise you can have just waaaaaaay too much stuff to remember. Theoretically a 150 point character could have 150 points of perks, not counting points from disadvantages. Thats a lot of (small) rules interacting.

Obviously that's a degenerate case, but the existence of degenerate cases is why lines get drawn :)

[Pragmatic]

Supposedly, the upcoming Thaumatology supplement, on Chinese Elements (earth, air, fire, water, wood, I think?) will be "spells as powers."

Here.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

Supposedly, the upcoming Thaumatology supplement, on Chinese Elements (earth, air, fire, water, wood, I think?) will be "spells as powers."

Here.

That would be Earth, Fire, Water, Metal and Wood. Air is part of the Western classical system but not the Chinese one based of Taoism.
Air is important as in its conisdered breath of life and energy but not an actual element of Yin/Yang.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Jerander

1) Does Magic as Powers have a similar guideline for number of perks a mage can learn?

page 32 of Magical Styles says 1 perk per 20 points.

Originally Posted by Jerander

2) Do points spent in Magic as Powers count as points toward buying perks?

Yes, again, page 32.

Originally Posted by Jerander

3) How hard and fast is the rule for number of perks? What is the rational behind it? Could a Rule Excemption perk be purchased to bypass this rule?

I wouldn't. Like Bruno said it could be crazy annoying to have to remember all those itty-bitty-rules. That said, you can always give a additional number of bonus Magic perks based on some factor. I use Magery level as a bonus number of perks allowed and exempt Magical Rank and Permit (magic) from that completely. Nothing has broke since I've been using it.

Ghostdancer