[Martial Arts] Things I would like to see

[HeroPenguin]

It's probably safe to say that MA will expand the rules for scaling combat like this. In the mean time, though, you can extrapolate the level of "no, you can't freaking do that" with unarmed combat by following the guidelines provided in the very handy letterbox that Klaus pointed out.

If a weapon's odds of breaking against the attack exceed 6 out of 6, it is considered that it provided so little resistance that it was worthless.if an attack is so "heavy" that it would instantly destroy the weapon being used to defend, then the parry is impossible. So if you try to parry an attack with a minimum damage equal to 1/2 HP + arm DR, the parry automatically fails (with possible exception of critical defense).

The letterbox actually says that the rules on attack weight are for parrying with weapons only, and that injury rules should be used for unarmed parrying. Going by what that says, a ST 10 person can only actually parry an attack up to ST 45, assuming the attacker is unarmed.

If you want that to be more modular, I don't think it would be out of line to add an additional penalty for every multiple of your own damage your opponent exceeds yours by, and this could be used for any attack, armed or unarmed. It'll make combat more deadly if you have a wide range of ST and/or weapons being used, and it's quite possible the penalty will need tweaking, and I have no idea how it'll work against something like a push or a slam, but for an average situation it seels like it'd work until we get something better.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Luther

Here is my wishlist/checklist:

By category:

Originally Posted by Luther

• 160 pages from the old GURPS Martial Arts updated to 4th edition
• 22 pages of combat galore from GURPS Swashbucklers (maneuvers, styles, weight, speed, range...)
• 1 page of detailed and expanded weapons customization rules from GURPS Low Tech
• Fairbairn Close Combat Training from GURPS WWII: Hand of Steel.
• notes about Mixed Martial Arts competitions (UFC, Pride)

An unequivocal "yes" to all of that.

Originally Posted by Luther

• 14 pages of other combat systems from GURPS Compendium II (actually less pages, excluding guns)
• 1 page of detailed and expanded bleeding rules
• some more rules from GURPS Compendium II that didn't make into the Basic Set [§]
• expanded rules for weapons and poisons

A conditional "to some extent" here. There will be additional detail for Fast-Draw and partial crippling and tournament combat, for instance, as in Compendium II . . . but not everything from that book. There will be more rules for nasty injuries, and bleeding will be treated explicitly but not the only reason for the rule. There will be plenty of weapon notes, but we're leaving a lot for Low-Tech (if no martial-arts style uses the weapon, well, it's definitely not covered) . . . and poisons, as cool as they are for ninjas, are more topical for a later book on covert ops or espionage.

Originally Posted by Luther

• 3 pages of underwater combat from GURPS Atlantis
• 1 or more pages of expanded (generic) mounted combat rules

No. As far as we could tell, no martial-arts styles focus on underwater fighting. As cool as it would be for fantasy, I suppose, it just didn't make the cut. Mounted combat . . . already gets three pages of its own in the Basic Set. We do, however, have numerous mounted martial arts along with quite a few mounted techniques -- perhaps those pages and pages of notes will do?

Originally Posted by Luther

• 1 page of detailed and expanded infection rules

Omitted because while aiming to cause crippling and bleeding is a valid tactic, and can end a fight quickly, infection won't bring down a foe in a fight and therefore isn't really topical for the martial arts. We're already over word count, so we MUST be strict about this. If it isn't part of a fighting style, a weapon you use with a fighting style, or a tactic you use when fighting with a fighting style . . . it's officially off topic.

Originally Posted by Luther

• 1 page of detailed weapon size and scale rules
• 1 page of detailed and expanded armors customization rules from GURPS Low Tech
• 1 page of detailed and expanded bow/xbow/arrows rules from GURPS Low Tech
• official rules for armors damage (finally!)

Unequivocal "no" to all that. That's precisely what Low-Tech will be for. Martial Arts discusses weapons omitted from the Basic Set in terms used in the Basic Set. It doesn't attempt to get into expanded weapons and armor rules, because it's about fighting styles and not weapons and armor.

Originally Posted by Luther

Pyramid articles to be considered (for ideas and mechanics):

We've considered some, not others. The ones obsessed with weapons weren't on our list. As I said, that's precisely what Low-Tech (and to an extent, High-Tech) will be for. Bryan's articles proved largely redundant with our own material on fencing, which drew heavily on Sydney Anglo's work -- a lot of which made different assumptions. Volker's articles were part of our source material, with Volker's permission.

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by Kromm

Already covered in the Basic Set, which has rules for assigning an effective weapon weight to a fist based on ST, and a maximum weapon weight that you can parry based on your ST. We have specific bullet-time rules.

What about maximum speed that you can parry? Will that be covered under the bullet-time rules?

[Kromm]

Please respect that this time (as in, "for Fourth Edition"), I am trying to plan a game line as opposed to let it grow by accretion. This absolutely requires leaving things to the books where they would be most topical. Some examples:

• Disease and hospitalization? Bio-Tech.
• Extra-detailed rules for weapons and armor (breakage, etc.)? High-Tech and Low-Tech.
• Guns and "gun fu"? High-Tech (and our writers have some nice rules for "gun fu," too!).
• Lots and lots on poisons, stealth, and being a ninja? Whatever 4e book replaces Covert Ops (and yes, I have an idea what book that will be, but I'm not tipping my hand).

Martial Arts is specifically about:

• Fighting styles (be they BJJ, iaijutsu, medieval lance combat, or pa kua chuan).
• New character abilities (mainly techniques) needed for those fighting styles. And techniques will hew to the Basic Set. We have no mandate to obsolete a new rules edition with this book.
• New weapons needed for those fighting styles, in Basic Set terms.
• Expanded combat rules to cover the real and cinematic tactics of those fighting styles (for instance, how to hold your ricasso when using your sword for close-in stabbing, and how to pull off k3wl cinematic acrobatics in combat).

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by NineDaysDead

What about maximum speed that you can parry? Will that be covered under the bullet-time rules?

Unequivocal no. The system hasn't specifically assigned speeds to ranged attacks since 1986. This won't change on my watch, as I regard it as unnecessary detail. Martial Arts will continue to use the "melee, slow & ranged (muscle-powered), or fast & ranged (firearms)" model that the game has used for 20 years. It will, however, add new rules for parrying missiles -- including very fast ones.

Oh, a quick PS: Speed of melee attacks is what Deceptive Attack is for. The book comes out and says that DA is often nothing more than blinding speed. (And if you can throw a punch so fast that no one can stop it, that's definitely a DA. Just be sure to take enough skill to justify that. And believe me, to hit your target with a supersonic punch, you pretty much have to have huge skill. If you don't, you'll just be swooshing really fast.)

[Tsuru-Sennin]

What about something lik this:

Take ST 10 guy, he has BL of 20. Say the character can parry attacks "weighing" up to 10% of his BL and every full multiple gives you -1 to parry? See following table:

Attack weight	Penalty to parry
less than 2	0
2-4		-1
4-6		-2
6-8		-3
8-10		-4
10-12		-5
12-14		-6
14-16		-7
16-18		-8
18-20		-9
over 20		Impossible

[zorg]

Originally Posted by Kromm

Martial Arts is specifically about:

• Fighting styles (be they BJJ, iaijutsu, medieval lance combat, or pa kua chuan).

I assume stuff like "Zero G Kung Fu"/"Vacc Suit-Karate" will be discussed the same way as in MA3E? That is to say, a paragraph or two on specific scifi or fantasy styles?
Or will there be more information? /curious/

[Luther]

Thank you Doc for the head up, much appreciated. You are dead right about planning a game line, all the extra stuff you have mentioned (armor damage, infections, mass combat, etc.) really pertains to other books (Low-Tech, High-Tech, etc.) and now I'm glad fourth edition took this path -- some times ago I wasn't so enthusiast, but you changed my mind.

Can't wait to playtest the thing . . .

[Peter V. Dell'Orto]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

If it's got Fairbairn, I hope it also has MCMAP.

I had a number of reliable MCMAP folks to turn to during research, so yeah, it is in the draft. I had a newly-minted tan belt, a recently-retired instructor who is also a Chito-ryu Karate-do nidan, and another instructor with a wide background in martial arts and experience with LINE, MCMAP`s predecessor. I also had lots of video of USMC Basic Training HTH instruction as a grounding.

So it was an obvious choice for inclusion.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Toadkiller_Dog

So it was an obvious choice for inclusion.

Oorah! Kill!