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Old 01-20-2019, 03:27 PM   #91
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Default Re: New use for XP - Heroic Exploits

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The lowered ST cost to 'charge' the staff and the restrictions on where that ST can come from are both intended to reinforce the special-ness of the bond between wizard and staff. The arcane foci that I intended is essentially an extension of the wizard's soul or personal essense so pulling ST from another source via Aid would not be usable for the purpose of recharging the device.
Ah, that's an interesting unexpected limitation that nicely reduces gamey fiddly recharge techniques.
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Old 01-20-2019, 04:15 PM   #92
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Default Re: New use for XP - Heroic Exploits

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Not to say it's a bad idea, but it strikes me that this seems a bit like the reverse of the situation described for the ITL Wizards' Guild, which seems to want or even try to require (and according to ITL, mostly succeed) in having all wizards be members (i.e. they want to collect dues and exert power & authority over them, so they might not want such a barrier to entry). Maybe though it might be a sign and/or prerequisite for some rank in the guild, now that it is tied to the ability for experienced mages to have mana staves.
Perhaps, though I prefer to think of it as minor correction since it seems like the default ITL version of the Wizard's Guild inevitably leads to hcobb's interpretation of a powerful omnipresent organization that practically runs the game world. I want to create the opportunity for a more varied magic-using landscape (and yes, I realize that is my own world-building biases filtering into the mechanics being proposed). But to be clear, I would only provide that as one possible explanation for the delay in being able to gain a wizard's staff.


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Also, in original TFT at least, and I would think even in new ITL, there would be a fair proportion of good wizards who do not get staff abilities, preferring to concentrate on other abilities.
Except now (and maybe this is just me) it feels like there is less of a choice for wizards. The Staff spells as presented in the Legacy edition feel like a 'must have' option and I dislike that kind of character path railroading. Like you say, wizards should have a variety of viable build options.

BTW, I have a few more wizard-centric portfolios that I am working on to help reinforce this idea that there are many paths to power.


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My own house-rules-in-progress have been separating the combat functions of staffs from the mana functions of staffs, because I like to think different wizards have different interests and should not have one path that lumps together mana powers with powerful zappy combat powers.
I'd love to see those once they are fleshed out.
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Old 01-20-2019, 04:24 PM   #93
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Default Re: New use for XP - Heroic Exploits

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Another existing sub-system that might be co-opted is the superpowers supplement contained in the TFT Companion
I looked at that as well as I began developing my 'Powers' concept, but ultimately felt that the door opened by Steve's expansion of what XP can be used for was the better path.
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Old 01-20-2019, 05:29 PM   #94
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I say all that as context for commenting on your costs for these super-powers. Because the implications for a campaign are extremely different depending on whether the GM assumes these XP requirements are a big deal that few people could do, or whether they're trivial because a basic military training can give people 1500 XP worth of weapon talents, so there may as well be a trained Healing Corps that instead put that 1500 XP into level-2 healing Power so that the army has a lot of magic healers. Now, you did clearly say the GM can and should limit the availability of Powers, so this would only exist if the GM wanted it to, but it seems like how this is balanced is tied to how the GM relates to the RAW XP costs for learning talents.
You may be right and w/o clear guidance from Mr. Jackson we're left to make our own assumptions about the intent of those rules. As you know, my own clear bias is that the aquisition of IQ grants the character new talents/spells and I'd prefer not to re-hash all of that here, but since the group consensus thus far seems to be in opposition to my personal preference the proposed XP costs for Powers are designed to be in line with the approach that talents and spells can only be acquired post-creation thru the expenditure of 500 XP.

This is another reason why I think that a flat XP cost of 1000 points per Power (regardless of tier) may be better than the escalating costs I initially proposed.
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Old 01-20-2019, 05:43 PM   #95
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I wonder a bit about what it means in the game universe logic that there are these powers limited to 5 and possibly costing congruent XP, but being disparate things like super-jumping, healing, using staff magic, etc?

And more practically, what do the characters know about the limits and means of acquiring these powers, and what's their theory/thinking about what/why that is the case, and do they (and/or how) choose to acquire them and then do so?

i.e. Does Sambo the Adventurer know he can develop up to five super-powers split between those various things, and that there will be the trade-offs the player can see about whether to get multiple paths or concentrate which will impact how quickly he can get them? How would I think about that as a player wanting to immersively roleplay my characters' decisions?
I'll have to give this more thought, but my intent is that Powers should only be made available at the discretion of and with guidance from the GM. And while odd mis-mashes of lower tier powers from different portfolios is certainly possible, doing so will limit the player character's access to more powerful abilities as well as the increased potency of Powers they initially selected.

Another approach, I suppose, could be to allow GMs total control over when Power unlocks occur (i.e take character XP out of the equation entirely), but I dislike the removal of player choice in the ultimate design of their characters.
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Old 01-20-2019, 10:56 PM   #96
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Perhaps, though I prefer to think of it as minor correction since it seems like the default ITL version of the Wizard's Guild inevitably leads to hcobb's interpretation of a powerful omnipresent organization that practically runs the game world.
I don't want a super-powered Wizards' Guild either, but (probably not what you meant, but) I don't think the guild having a desire for all wizards to be in the guild (and so not wanting Staff to be a barrier to entry) would inevitably lead to that. Our assumptions were the WG may want to have as many wizards belong to them as possible, but WG factions and national and other divides and non-complying wizards and general chaos and independent-mindedness meant W Guilds were powerful but fractured and certainly not omnipresent nor offering anywhere near most of the level of operations hcobb tends to write about.


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Except now (and maybe this is just me) it feels like there is less of a choice for wizards. The Staff spells as presented in the Legacy edition feel like a 'must have' option and I dislike that kind of character path railroading. Like you say, wizards should have a variety of viable build options.
I agree.


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BTW, I have a few more wizard-centric portfolios that I am working on to help reinforce this idea that there are many paths to power.
Super.


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I'd love to see those once they are fleshed out.
Will share when ready. But I have too much work, too many games, too much other, too perfectionist, etc.
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Old 01-20-2019, 11:12 PM   #97
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You may be right and w/o clear guidance from Mr. Jackson we're left to make our own assumptions about the intent of those rules. As you know, my own clear bias is that the aquisition of IQ grants the character new talents/spells and I'd prefer not to re-hash all of that here, but since the group consensus thus far seems to be in opposition to my personal preference the proposed XP costs for Powers are designed to be in line with the approach that talents and spells can only be acquired post-creation thru the expenditure of 500 XP.
Yes, I agree. The issue just becomes for other GMs who think of 500XP as normal to learn any talent, then these start to look slightly easy to get compared to some talents (or low-IQ spells considering these have no prereqs other than lower tiers, well, and very importantly, GM rationale for allowing each one to be gained), but that's mainly the fault of the 500 XP is the only way to learn a talent thing.


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This is another reason why I think that a flat XP cost of 1000 points per Power (regardless of tier) may be better than the escalating costs I initially proposed.
I don't follow why?

I like that the increasing costs makes the more powerful costs more costly and less common/accessible.


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I'll have to give this more thought, but my intent is that Powers should only be made available at the discretion of and with guidance from the GM. And while odd mis-mashes of lower tier powers from different portfolios is certainly possible, doing so will limit the player character's access to more powerful abilities as well as the increased potency of Powers they initially selected.
Yes, assuming they survive and the game goes on that long, but they get to have five abilities for 500 XP less than a one-portfolio person would spend to get three.

I think the GM discretion and guidance would be quite significant.


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Another approach, I suppose, could be to allow GMs total control over when Power unlocks occur (i.e take character XP out of the equation entirely), but I dislike the removal of player choice in the ultimate design of their characters.
Removing XP from it wouldn't necessarily also have to remove player choice. It could still be things their characters choose that lead to the powers. I've actually played in such games before, in GURPS, where players'/PCs' choices led to them discovering lines of study/devotion/development that led to them gaining particular abilities, which either did or didn't cost GURPS character points (the more I have played GURPS, the less I care about or want to use its character points, and the more I want to have actions determine character development, and I'm starting to think maybe the same thing would work better than XP for TFT) - i.e. you have Tier 2 powers in a Zen Archery portfolio because you spent a year studying with a Zen Archery master in the remote magical mountains... no XP involved, or you got "Zen Archery XP" - only usable for that).
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Old 01-21-2019, 06:56 PM   #98
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Default Re: New use for XP - Heroic Exploits

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Removing XP from it wouldn't necessarily also have to remove player choice. It could still be things their characters choose that lead to the powers. I've actually played in such games before, in GURPS, where players'/PCs' choices led to them discovering lines of study/devotion/development that led to them gaining particular abilities, which either did or didn't cost GURPS character points (the more I have played GURPS, the less I care about or want to use its character points, and the more I want to have actions determine character development, and I'm starting to think maybe the same thing would work better than XP for TFT) - i.e. you have Tier 2 powers in a Zen Archery portfolio because you spent a year studying with a Zen Archery master in the remote magical mountains... no XP involved, or you got "Zen Archery XP" - only usable for that).
I can see how that might work. Maybe I'll write that up as an optional alternative acquisition strategy. Thanks.
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Old 01-21-2019, 07:19 PM   #99
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Focus(S) This spell comes in the same five levels as Staff at the same IQ levels.

Any wizard can have a focus or a staff at any given time, but not both.

The focus doesn't have the occult strike of a staff and generally isn't a weapon at all. Instead it has the following two powers:
  • Find Focus - The wizard concentrates for one turn and on a succesful IQ roll knows which of the six directions his focus is in. Roll is 3/IQ for a ten yards or less, add one die for each ten fold increase in distance. On a critical falure roll a random direction.
  • Concentrate - The wizard spends a minute staring at his focus then may cast any one turn spell he knows at the average of IQ and DX (round down) instead of DX. Add one to IQ before averaging for each level of Focus above I. (I.e. IQ +4 for Focus V, which is +2 for the final roll.)
Interesting idea, but I'm going to stick with my non-spell approach. I already have a spell called 'Imprint' that would have a similar effect to 'Find Focus' (using Scrying), but I'd like to borrow 'Concentrate' if that's OK with you.

Right now there are two other foci-related portfolios that I'm working on and like your suggestion, wizards will only be able to select one of them; arcane (staff), divine or familiar.
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Old 01-21-2019, 08:56 PM   #100
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Default Re: New use for XP - Heroic Exploits

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Right now there are two other foci-related portfolios that I'm working on and like your suggestion, wizards will only be able to select one of them; arcane (staff), divine or familiar.
I don't have a second for replacing Staff to Snake with Staff to Familiar?
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