Ripping Out Someone's Heart

[JCurwen3]

What would it take to rip someone's heart out of their chest (killing them, unless they have some exotic advantage) in RAW GURPS? I know the heart is normally -5 to hit, although this is probably more difficult than just hitting the heart, and involves targeting the area with a fist, breaking through the rib cage, finding the heart within, and ripping it out of the chest cavity. Since the fist generally does crushing damage, by RAW it doesn't seem like there'd be any wounding modifier, although in this instance the fist is acting more like an impaling weapon.

I know that to do this requires superhuman ST, so the next question would be: how much ST to do this to an average human?

Also, ignoring RAW, because it doesn't like insta-kill attacks and I'm less hostile to the idea of them, how much damage does the heart really need to "cripple" or destroy it? For instance, the eye takes HP/10 to be blinded, and double that to be destroyed. As a house rule, if I wanted to treat the heart in a similar manner, for the purposes of injury (including being ripped out), what would be a reasonably realistic way to do this technique then, and how much HP of injury could a heart withstand?

[Mr_Sandman]

You could use Lethal Strike from Martial Arts to target vitals and do enough damage to kill. Ripping the heart out would be a special effect, like decapitation.

Or you could do this with Affliction (heart attack +300%, melee attack C - 30%)

[David Johnston2]

Most of the people who do that are using exotic chi or magic power to cheat. But really you can determine it by determining how much strength it takes to deal a certainly lethal attack in two or three blows. About 30 points should be enough to do it to an average person in two moves.

[Gnomasz]

Originally Posted by Mr_Sandman

You could use Lethal Strike from Martial Arts to target vitals and do enough damage to kill. Ripping the heart out would be a special effect, like decapitation.

Lethal Strike is actually in Basic Set on p. 404. But for this kind of cool move I'd call for Pressure Secrets (p. B215). It has wounding modifier, is harder than just hitting the heart, and has an awesome description. And it requires TBaM, which costs suggested above 30 points. It's destiny!

Originally Posted by JCurwen3

Also, ignoring RAW, because it doesn't like insta-kill attacks and I'm less hostile to the idea of them, how much damage does the heart really need to "cripple" or destroy it? For instance, the eye takes HP/10 to be blinded, and double that to be destroyed. As a house rule, if I wanted to treat the heart in a similar manner, for the purposes of injury (including being ripped out), what would be a reasonably realistic way to do this technique then, and how much HP of injury could a heart withstand?

Well, I have no idea about heart's real endurance, but with mass of half a pound I'd give it only 1 HP. To break through the ribcage, I'd call for 2 points of damage, just because a skull gives 2 DR. As an effect you need to deal 3 points of damage, which translates to 9 points of actual injury while using Pressure Secrets. To make it look nicer and more in line with crippling injuries, I'd say you need to inflict over 1×HP points of injury.

[Figleaf23]

Here's how I would model it (as distinct from how I'd build it):

Step 1

Do cutting, impaling or exotic hand strike damage = HT or crushing = HT*1.5 to chest or upper back.

Step 2

If hand remains in wound, go to step 3. If not, make an unarmed attack with your hand, targeting the wound (-5?) and if successful go to step 3.

Step 3

Option A

Make a DX-based roll vs Surgery, or other medical skill at it's default to surgery, or Professional Skill (Butcher) at -4. Success is treated as having a grapple on the heart.

Option B

Make a grappling attack (treat as a wild swing, Effective Skill capped at 9), targeting the vitals. If successful roll 1D6, 1-2 = means you grabbed the heart; 3-6 something else important.

Step 4

Apply grappling damage to the victim, including wounding modifiers for the vitals. When damage reaches -HTx5, your mitful of meat tears free of his chest. The victim is dead.


Undecided -- should there be penalties for working 'blind'?

[DangerousThing]

I would treat it as an innate attack, starting with "Summon a Beautiful Woman". It may take a few weeks...

Seriously, I would go with Pressure Secrets. Though I'm not sure how realistic it could be to ever rip somebody's heart out of their chest with your bare hands. The rib cage is extremely strong.

Of course the Mayans were rumored to do this in one slice of a glass knife.

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by JCurwen3

What would it take to rip someone's heart out of their chest (killing them, unless they have some exotic advantage) in RAW GURPS? I know the heart is normally -5 to hit, although this is probably more difficult than just hitting the heart, and involves targeting the area with a fist, breaking through the rib cage, finding the heart within, and ripping it out of the chest cavity. Since the fist generally does crushing damage, by RAW it doesn't seem like there'd be any wounding modifier, although in this instance the fist is acting more like an impaling weapon.

Instant kills happen at -HPx5, same as for decapitation.

Originally Posted by JCurwen3

I know that to do this requires superhuman ST, so the next question would be: how much ST to do this to an average human?

Assuming a ST10/HP10 target, you'd need to do 60 injury. Minimum ST to unfailingly do this is thereby ST 570. Minimum ST to do so consistently is thereby ST 150.

Presuming they aren't wearing armor.

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by DangerousThing

Of course the Mayans were rumored to do this in one slice of a glass knife.

Killing a helpless target works differently.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by DangerousThing

I would treat it as an innate attack, starting with "Summon a Beautiful Woman". It may take a few weeks...

Seriously, I would go with Pressure Secrets. Though I'm not sure how realistic it could be to ever rip somebody's heart out of their chest with your bare hands. The rib cage is extremely strong.

Of course the Mayans were rumored to do this in one slice of a glass knife.

Sharpness helps. In most of the super-martial artists doing it are most easily represented by Imbuement characters.

[Mr_Sandman]

Originally Posted by Sunrunners_Fire

Instant kills happen at -HPx5, same as for decapitation.

Assuming a ST10/HP10 target, you'd need to do 60 injury. Minimum ST to unfailingly do this is thereby ST 570. Minimum ST to do so consistently is thereby ST 150.

Presuming they aren't wearing armor.

You don't need to do 6xHT at once to decapitate. Any fatal cut to the neck can result in decapitation at the GM's option.

I'd say the same could hold for heart ripping. If you can target the vitals and you cause a death check that is failed, GMs option to allow heart-ripping. It's a special effect.

If I were the GM, I might rule that you have to do at least HT damage to the victim, to represent putting your hand into his chest. Certainly if you walk up to a healthy victim, do 2xHT damage bare handed with a lethal strike or pressure secrets, and your victim misses his death check, I'd feel more than comfortable allowing you to say that you are holding his heart.