Supers (high HP) how to manage excessive Slam damage?

[Boge]

Started playing a supers campaign. It's my first. Our characters have high ST and high HP. Since slam is based off HP and basic move (that's high also), some really high slam damage could come into play.

How to you regulate or manage those potential high slam numbers?

[naloth]

Originally Posted by Boge

Started playing a supers campaign. It's my first. Our characters have high ST and high HP. Since slam is based off HP and basic move (that's high also), some really high slam damage could come into play.

How to you regulate or manage those potential high slam numbers?

Generally it's not a problem, since normal damage usually far exceeds what you would do with a slam.* Could you provide examples? Super Effort doesn't increase your HP (leaving most with HP20-40) and logST usually keeps ST in manageable ranges.

*Super Jumping is one notable exception and speedsters with instant acceleration can pull a similar trick.

[Bruno]

Don't forget that the person slamming also takes damage. That tends to self-regulate.

[Nereidalbel]

Set some of your ST/Hp as "massless" (0 point feature). Using HP for Slam damage assumes you're following the standard mass:HP ratios, and since most Supers don't weigh half a ton, it's fair to say a good chunk of their HP is massless.

[Ottriman]

The most elegant solution and one that just makes sense in general is to decouple mass from hp. Use a 0 point feature called Mass that replaces hp for collisions and all that.

I set it so that Mass 10 = 70 kg (155,6 lbs) and then made it scale up by the square of the value exactly like the way ST scales. So basically 2x Mass = 4x weight = 2x collision damage.

Or if you want a formula you can always do it like so: weight = mass x mass x 0,7 kg. Or weight = mass x mass x 1,56 lbs.

This is also used for knockback in place of ST by me, so super strong characters will casually deck each other across the room, as they should.

It also makes wearing heavy enough gear actually provide increased knockback resistance.

Hope I helped.

[Boge]

Awesome suggestions. Thanks guys.

One of the players has a basic move of about 24 and HP 40 from what I could gather (I'm just a player, so I don't know all...the GM is keeping our powers secret as well, so we're just learning them at the moment). So I was figuring a maximum 18d slam damage. That's insane.

Anyway, I'll suggest a "mass" solution to this. Thanks!

EDIT: How do you determine just what the mass of your character is without basing it off your ST or HP or just straight up weight, which the player can choose? I generally choose my characters to be 170-180lbs which is more than the 155.6. So just from my choice alone, I get more slam damage without it costing me anything.

[Ottriman]

Originally Posted by Boge

Awesome suggestions. Thanks guys.

One of the players has a basic move of about 24 and HP 40 from what I could gather (I'm just a player, so I don't know all...the GM is keeping our powers secret as well, so we're just learning them at the moment). So I was figuring a maximum 18d slam damage. That's insane.

Anyway, I'll suggest a "mass" solution to this. Thanks!

EDIT: How do you determine just what the mass of your character is without basing it off your ST or HP or just straight up weight, which the player can choose? I generally choose my characters to be 170-180lbs which is more than the 155.6. So just from my choice alone, I get more slam damage without it costing me anything.

Straight up weight, just ask your player for a reasonable weight figure for someone of that height and build. You can even easily google the weights of real athletes in various fields too for comparison.

Use common sense and your GMing instincts here, it just works.

And if someone is supposed to be a weird density you can just apply some density multiplier afterwards.

Like if your beefcake is a living tungsten man and would be base 263 lbs as a huge bodybuilder (Mass 13), then you'd just slap on a x19,3 multiplier at the weight for mass 57 (near enough to that to easily round down to that).

[Boge]

Originally Posted by Ottriman

Straight up weight, just ask your player for a reasonable weight figure for someone of that height and build. You can even easily google the weights of real athletes in various fields too for comparison.

Use common sense and your GMing instincts here, it just works.

And if someone is supposed to be a weird density you can just apply some density multiplier afterwards.

Like if your beefcake is a living tungsten man and would be base 263 lbs as a huge bodybuilder (Mass 13), then you'd just slap on a x19,3 multiplier at the weight for mass 57 (near enough to that to easily round down to that).

But it's still based off of choice. And what happens with someone that is fat vs skinny? Both disadvantages, but in this instance, being fat gives that extra benefit, especially if you move 24 hexes. I realize the differences won't be extreme with realistic mass, but when you throw in super speeds, now every pound becomes significant.

So I guess I'm now wondering what you do about super speeds and super jump as mentioned above.


When you slam someone, do you take the same amount of damage you deal, or is there damage separate based on what they've moved? I think we've been doing it all wrong.

[Ottriman]

Originally Posted by Boge

But it's still based off of choice. And what happens with someone that is fat vs skinny? Both disadvantages, but in this instance, being fat gives that extra benefit, especially if you move 24 hexes. I realize the differences won't be extreme with realistic mass, but when you throw in super speeds, now every pound becomes significant.

So I guess I'm now wondering what you do about super speeds and super jump as mentioned above.

Weighing more also means your character cannot be moved easily even when convenient (like he's down and allies want to pull him for rescue). It also means that fragile surfaces won't support his weight.

Work this out with your player, and if he still wants to be very heavy you can keep this information in mind, and occasionally toss in places where being heavy sucks.

As to speed, I usually just allow it as it fits a concept. But I am also a guy that doesn't even use character points anymore (they're a crutch that just hampers me in the end).

In general GURPS is poorly designed around superheroics. Superheroes have powers that usually scale more based on drama and basic logic than something as consistent and realistically deadly as GURPS.

So extensive talks with players, establishing limits on things, designing by concept and multiple cinematic rules are very much the norm for me to play supers. Just having people buy whatever powers using the listed costs was something I did when I was inexperienced and it really bit me in the ass, made me re-evaluate high power levels in general.

[naloth]

Originally Posted by Boge

Awesome suggestions. Thanks guys.

One of the players has a basic move of about 24 and HP 40 from what I could gather (I'm just a player, so I don't know all...the GM is keeping our powers secret as well, so we're just learning them at the moment). So I was figuring a maximum 18d slam damage. That's insane.

40 HP * Move 24 = 960. That's a ~9d slam unless something else is going on. ST 40 (if equal to HP does thr 4d+1 or sw 7d-1. If you add on Karate bonuses (DX+1 or higher), DR3+, and the striking per, you'll do 4d+9 (6d+2) punching. You can AoA for more damage or two strikes to do similar damage to the slam without moving. (Presumably if you ran at top speed toward someone for a slam you weren't defending anyway.)

If they went the SuperST route for HP40, implies ST20 + SuperST 20 for an effective ST 5020 at the cost of 1 fatigue per use. That's a 505d thr, which is Hulk level high but not Superman level high.

Anyway, I'll suggest a "mass" solution to this. Thanks!

First off, I typically use KYOS (logST) so the ST/HP values rarely exceed 50. I've never had a PC with higher, though I've used NPCs with higher values. At logST 50 you have thr 10d+2, so a 10d-ish slam isn't unreasonable.

For knockback purposes (not slam), I generally treat characters over HP12 as HP10. It's easy on my math and allows punches to send tough guys flying back. If they "brace" they can resist with full ST instead of defending. It's comic book physics, if you try to artfully dodge and get tagged, you get thrown back. Strong characters that dig in usually end up getting pushed back slowly while they impress everyone with how tough they are.

EDIT: How do you determine just what the mass of your character is without basing it off your ST or HP or just straight up weight, which the player can choose?

Within reason you can choose, but it doesn't affect the HP value you use for slams. That's determined by the character's actual HP, not counting anything HP that's chosen as "massless".