Ultra-Tech Armor Climate Control

[Dark Knight Renee]

I'm bit baffled by the Ultra-Tech armor in general, doubly so since I've been trying to cobble together a custom armor design that's not just tailored Ballistic armor. My current question, however, relates to just the very beginning of the Armor section (p. 171) where it describes various forms of threat protection. As far as I can tell, these features ONLY exist in the pre-designed armors, the modification of which is difficult and inflexible at best. I've been struggling to reverse-engineer a rough set of values for them, but so far it hasn't been working.

My questions: How much do these things cost, how much do they weigh, how much battery power do they use? In particular, I'm looking at climate control, but everything listed under threat protection has the same lack of info.

[Langy]

Climate control is probably mostly negligable - a pound or two at most, and possibly a few hundred bucks. There are near-future/current plans for body armor with that feature, and I think they were looking at a 2 pound climate control system, though I don't remember exactly what this was or how realistic it was to put together.

[DemiBenson]

Originally Posted by Dark Knight Renee

I'm bit baffled by the Ultra-Tech armor in general, doubly so since I've been trying to cobble together a custom armor design that's not just tailored Ballistic armor. My current question, however, relates to just the very beginning of the Armor section (p. 171) where it describes various forms of threat protection. As far as I can tell, these features ONLY exist in the pre-designed armors, the modification of which is difficult and inflexible at best. I've been struggling to reverse-engineer a rough set of values for them, but so far it hasn't been working.

My questions: How much do these things cost, how much do they weigh, how much battery power do they use? In particular, I'm looking at climate control, but everything listed under threat protection has the same lack of info.

You are not the only person to have wondered.

In the past I have used the stats for a dry-suit as a rough estimate of a climate control + a toughened suit.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by Langy

Climate control is probably mostly negligable - a pound or two at most, and possibly a few hundred bucks. There are near-future/current plans for body armor with that feature, and I think they were looking at a 2 pound climate control system, though I don't remember exactly what this was or how realistic it was to put together.

1-2 lbs for what kind of climate control? I'm concerned that we're dealing with unstated assumptions here.

[Tzeentch]

Originally Posted by Dark Knight Renee

My questions: How much do these things cost, how much do they weigh, how much battery power do they use? In particular, I'm looking at climate control, but everything listed under threat protection has the same lack of info.

-- You're probably not going to get battery life. It's going to be rather negligable though, especially with a combination of passive and active systems.

-- p. B426 does say "Full-coverage armor at TL9+ is climate-controlled. This counts as a cooling system, and negates the penalties for hot weather." This is basically the guideline that Ultra-Tech follows. 'Design system' elements are something that was stripped from the UT draft during the total rewrite following playtest. The draft numbers were basically $50, 0.5 lb. per level of Temperature Tolerance with a power consumption of 5 watts per level. These numbers were drawn from some published stats for personal microclimate systems designed for either FELIN or (what was then called) Land Warrior, I don't recall exactly - it's from some Jane's article.

-- A lot of UT armor has climate control. This includes the Desert Environmental Suit (p. UT177), Drysuit (p. UT177), Heatsuit (p. UT177), Expedition Suit (p. UT177), Tacsuits (p. UT178), Skinsuit (p. UT178), Vacc Suit (p. UT179), Space Biosuit (p. UT179), all Sealed Combat Armor (p. UT179), Combat Walkers and Powered Combat Armor (pp. UT183-185),

-- For non full-coverage armor you're sort of on your own as far as stats. But do keep in mind the High-Tech moisture-wicking undershirts (p. HT64) before deciding if your system actually provides Temperature Tolerance.

[Anthony]

Low temperature climate control can have almost arbitrarily low power; your body produces around 100W at low activity levels, several times that when active, so it's just a matter of controlling the rate at which heat leaks out (at low tech levels, this is accomplished by adding or removing layers; at high tech levels I can visualize things like smart insulation that can alter its thermal conductivity). High temperature is tougher, with hard armor you need a method of heat transfer through the armor, and beyond a certain point you need air conditioning capable of dealing with a few hundred watts.

[Dark Knight Renee]

Originally Posted by Tzeentch

-- You're probably not going to get battery life. It's going to be rather negligable though, especially with a combination of passive and active systems.

... Then what's the C/12 hr. battery life on the TL9 Tacsuit for? It can't be for the biomedical sensors, they could get 12 hours out of 2AA. Plus, the other suits with climate control beyond basic insulation also eat a lot of power.

The draft numbers were basically $50, 0.5 lb. per level of Temperature Tolerance with a power consumption of 5 watts per level.

Wouldn't this result in the Desert Environment Suit weighing close to 30 lbs? Or am I misunderstanding how that works?

[Tzeentch]

Originally Posted by Dark Knight Renee

... Then what's the C/12 hr. battery life on the TL9 Tacsuit for? It can't be for the biomedical sensors, they could get 12 hours out of 2AA. Plus, the other suits with climate control beyond basic insulation also eat a lot of power.

-- The base power consumption was pulled out a hat and then a +50% endurance applied each TL.

[Dark Knight Renee]

... It feels like a LOT of things were pulled out of a hat. *sigh*


Since it looks like I'm going to have to pull something out of my own hat, here's my best shot. Does it look right?

Sealing & Climate Control (TL9)
This can be added to any full suit of armor not already possessing climate control and sealing capability (eg. Ballistic Armor). NBC Suit skill is used to get in or out of the suit quickly or gauge its state of repair, but the suit does not limit DX. It provides a climate control system, which does the poorly-specified climate control stuff mentioned in the Basic Set (B285, B426, & B434). With an air mask or combat infantry helmet, the suit is sealed and provides full climate control (-50° F to 120°F). $1,000, 2 lbs.


Not sure what battery life to attach. The Tacsuit uses C/24 hr., but the Desert Environment Suit manages to run on C/1 wk, despite having just as much climate control as the Tacsuit PLUS the waste-water recycling.

[starslayer]

Here is the thing- Climate control is really really experimental on the experimental suits being developed today (so doubly experimental), some systems use fans and batteries, some systems use passive bladders in the boots to cycle water or other coolant, some systems use heat piping and have no moving parts.

What is evident though is that any armor that provides more protection then the current vest+ceramic plate setup, or that provides full body protection (including face) will NEED climate control- because if you cover everything, nothing 'breathes' and people heat up fast.

I would say that any suit listing climate control as part of it's feature set NEEDS it, and thus the very short run times; the system has got to be running while your inside it, or your going to find yourself in a sweaty terrible oven (and suffer appropriate FP penalties). A suit that would otherwise not need climate control, but gets it added will only need to turn on that climate control when the wearer is doing something to produce extra body heat, or be in a very hostile environment.

So I would go with:
1- If the suit NEEDS climate control; it gets life like the tacsuit, 24hrs/C.
2- If the suit does not need climate control, it gets life like the desert environmental suit 1 wk/C