12-27-2016, 06:18 PM | #2421 | |
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Re: New Reality Seeds
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Stage an Anglo-American war in the 1930s and it does not leave the OTL causes of WW2 anything like in place. At that point the world economy can just about be divided into three fairly equal segments - the British Empire, the United States, and everybody else on the planet put together. Nobody's economy comes through this unscathed even if the dueling giants let them sit out the actual fighting.
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-- MA Lloyd |
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12-27-2016, 06:41 PM | #2422 | |
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: West Virginia
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Re: New Reality Seeds
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Per Ardua Per Astra! Ancora Imparo |
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12-27-2016, 07:07 PM | #2423 | ||
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: MO, U.S.A.
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Re: New Reality Seeds
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World War II will be very ugly here, after a serious war over Canada, the U.S. will be very unlikely to help the U.K. vs. the Germans, this combined with the loss of manpower and resources from Canada will very likely lead to a negotiated peace between Germany and the U.K. after Dunkirk. Of course a U.K. on recent war footing vs. the U.S. may be willing to invade Germany over Czechoslovakia in 1938, ending WW II before it starts in Europe. The Pacific War may not happen either, with a complacent U.K. Japan may get enough oil from the Middle East that they will not need to go south. If Germany wins early in Western Europe, Japan will be more likely to at least look more seriously at invading Russia. A defeated Germany, with greater attention on Japan would likely slow Japans expansion. A Japan that stops and develops Korea and Manchuria farther than they did in our history will very likely move Japan into true great power status. Edit: As malloyd and Astromancer state, this would be WW II, my statements about our WW II should read as WW III.
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Xenophilia is Dr. Who. Plus Lecherous is Jack Harkness.- Anaraxes Last edited by adm; 12-27-2016 at 07:11 PM. Reason: malloyd and Astromancer posted while I was typing, I have added to the original post. |
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12-27-2016, 07:28 PM | #2424 |
Join Date: Mar 2013
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Re: New Reality Seeds
adm, the plan Canada had that was mentioned in that video was basically a surprise attack, there likely would be much of a warning troops started marching across the border and navel bases are attacked.
Now that I think about it Pearl Harbor probably happens in this timeline, expect it's done by Australia and New Zealand as part of taking possession of Hawaii. As for WW2, you might end up with the weird situation of Britain being distracted else where but Germany negotiating a truce because they don't want a wart with Britain. |
12-27-2016, 08:14 PM | #2425 | ||
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: MO, U.S.A.
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Re: New Reality Seeds
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A Hitler that takes Munich seriously could lead to an invasion of the U.S.S.R. with actual European support. That could lead to some interesting changes.
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Xenophilia is Dr. Who. Plus Lecherous is Jack Harkness.- Anaraxes |
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12-27-2016, 10:39 PM | #2426 | ||
Join Date: Mar 2013
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Re: New Reality Seeds
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That's an understatement, I've seen video of a training exercise where they painted words like 'TANK' onto sheets and tied them to the sides of supply trucks. So we might be a large war fraught with bicycle infantry. Quote:
This sort of thing, I wanted to make things different, which is why I had the US 'lose' the war and them not make up with the British. |
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12-28-2016, 01:55 AM | #2427 | |
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Re: New Reality Seeds
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Heck, even if they did win, can you even imagine the insurgency problem? You've got a historical context set aside what amounts to the greatest betrayal of the modern age, a quite reasonable expectation that the occupation can't hold and a well armed society with a bunch of war veterans still in their prime. The USA itself can't keep people from building bombs inside the USA. The Empire is already at war in Ireland at this time and even a US based insurgency could supply lots of weapons. You've got to decimate the US prior to this invasion. Maybe a new flu epidemic or massive prior infiltration. Even then, I don't know how you occupy the place. |
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12-28-2016, 03:18 AM | #2428 | ||
Join Date: Mar 2013
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Re: New Reality Seeds
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The 1918 Spanish Flu maybe? Interestingly that video also mentioned all the times the US has tried to invade Canada in the past, included in the list where Irish-Americans crossing the border to make trouble for the British in support of Ireland, maybe that could serve as a divergence, causing problems for the US. |
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12-28-2016, 10:30 AM | #2429 |
Hero of Democracy
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far from the ocean
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Re: New Reality Seeds
A late 1920's war between the US and the UK is an awesome setting for alternate history.
Things that need to happen: The "Great Rapprochement" of 1985-1915 needs to be strangled. This probably means British opposition to the Spanish-American War, and a resulting building of hostilities. Britain needs to feel militarily secure. This means no American involvement in the Great War, and a victory of maneuver rather than of attrition. You either need a major victory in the north sea that allows a near blockade of German ports (as opposed to the far blockade) the threat of amphibious landings, and extensive offshore bombardment, or you need a major tank breakthrough. Ideally, you have both. World War I does need to happen. If you've got Germany vying for naval supremacy Britain can't afford to attack the US. The motivation for this war is pretty much the same as world war I: attack your rising enemy before its too late. A few notes about the war: Japan will side with Britain. The drifting apart of the Japanese and British was a direct consequence of the British and the Americans drifting together. They will want the Philippines, and the British need allies in this war. France, in the wake of WWI, is likely to stay neutral. In the sort of way the us was neutral at the start of both world wars. Britain will need a bread basket other than Canada, and France produces an agricultural surplus. They may eventually be provoked into the war on the British side. Once one side gains an naval victory, opportunists will pop out of the wood work. If the British gain naval superiority, Mexico will join against the US. On the continent, this role will be played by Germany, and perhaps Italy. We don't know if he have an imperial Russia or a USSR. The USSR is likely to join only to play the vulture vs. Japan and/or Europe. Imperial Russia is more of a wild card, though the desire to see the Japanese trounced may win out... or they may stick with their allies from the last war. In which case Britain's home fortunes are probably secure. They may grab Alaska. Likely enough they will deal with problems at home though. Neither side will have the power to enact a proper naval blockade on the other. I can see submarines being a huge part of this war, but they will have to go quite some distance to get to the places that really matter. England is at a natural disadvantage in this war, as they have to import food to the island, and to really win the war they need to at least take back Canada. How to start out Canada is a big question. You can certainly have a large prewar build-up, even stationing the bulk of your troops there. The difficulty is keeping them supplied with ammo (food might be doable -- Canada was and is a bread basket). In the early stages of the war the British are unlikely to have the naval superiority they need to run a logistical train from the home islands. Additionally, your wartime army (and theirs) will be several times larger than a peacetime army, so you can only build up so much. The British either have to quickly gain naval superiority, execute a quick victory against the US Eastern seaboard, or give up Canada in the short term. The Philippines are doomed, at least in the short run. The US hasn't had them long, and they're in the heart of enemy territory. Hawaii is an interesting case. Its not a state at this point, so its entirely possibly it won't be a priority either. The British are likely to start out with better military technology than the US. That may change as the war progresses, but at the start, the British will have won a modern war the US won't have even fought one.
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Be helpful, not pedantic Worlds Beyond Earth -- my blog Check out the PbP forum! If you don't see a game you'd like, ask me about making one! Last edited by ericthered; 12-28-2016 at 10:34 AM. |
12-28-2016, 10:52 AM | #2430 |
Untitled
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: between keyboard and chair
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Re: New Reality Seeds
Adding a possible wrinkle to the mix:
The Paris Peace Conference of 1919 gave Australia control over New Guinea and Nauru. Canadian Prime Minister Robert Borden argued that the same logic should be applied to make the British Caribbean (Bermuda, Bahamas, Barbados, Jamaica, the Turks and Caicos Islands, etc.) territories of Canada. In OTL, this did not happen. If it did happen in this timeline, then the US has to worry about Canadian ports in the Caribbean as well as at Halifax and Montreal, which splits the attention of the US navy from the very beginning instead of waiting for the rest of the Commonwealth to join in the war.
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Rob Kelk “Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts.” – Bernard Baruch, Deming (New Mexico) Headlight, 6 January 1950 No longer reading these forums regularly. |
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