Mathematics

coronatiger · 05-23-2019, 05:21 AM

If a low-tech character needs to figure out a maths puzzle, how would you model it? Assume the character doesn't have Mathematics skill.

Example: Ten married couples meet at a party. How many handshakes will there be if everyone shakes hands with everyone but their own spouses?

Edit: What should be the probability of an untrained person figuring out the correct answer?

AlexanderHowl · 05-23-2019, 05:42 AM

Not likely, since the answer is over 100. Mathematics defaults to IQ-6, which means that the average person has an '8' for routine use. Now, with extra time, they can get up to '13', but I would say that they would need around half an hour to get up to that level.

In the US education system, I would say that the average adult has 1 CP in Mathematics (Applied) if they have graduated high school (after all, K-4 is enough for the default, everything else is skill aquisition), which would give them a '12' for routine use. Of course, this assumes that they passed with a 'C', a 'B' student would have 2 CP and an 'A' student would have 4 CP, adjusted as needed for students with higher or lower IQ. For example, an IQ 12 person could graduate with an 'A' with 1 CP while an IQ 8 person would require 4 CP to graduate with a 'C'.

Gumby Bush · 05-23-2019, 05:44 AM

Mathematics defaults to IQ-6. That problem is likely, oh, +0? I'd give +1 for Versatile.

I know how to solve it without fancy equations (geometry diagram, is canonical, basically), but without paper I'd be at -1. With stats equations, it'd be easier, depending on TL (it's basically a fancy permutation problem, but those I've never memorized the equations for).

However, a good roll, with Versatile providing a boost, results in this solution:
There are 10 married couples, and each shakes hands with both members of the 9 other couples...
Married couple1: 18h a piece
Married couple2: 16h a piece besides the ones with mc1
etc... so, after mcn finished shaking hands, mc(n-1) has 2 fewer handshakes to make.
2x(18 + 16 + 14 + 12 + 10 + 8 + 6 + 4 + 2 + 0) = 180
(I expect I have a point in Mathematics, benefited from Versatile, and maybe took 2x time)

A failure for a trained person means they probably read it like I did at first and saw 10 composed of couples...

Without Versatile, I'd assume they draw out all the handshakes or something.

Brandy · 05-23-2019, 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

In the US education system, I would say that the average adult has 1 CP in Mathematics (Applied) if they have graduated high school (after all, K-4 is enough for the default, everything else is skill aquisition)

If you asked me how I would model someone who successfully learned the mathematics of High School through Calculus, I would be inclined to say with the Dabbler perk. Specifically, Dabbler(Mathematics: Applied, Mathematics: Pure, Mathematics: Statistics).

Brandy · 05-23-2019, 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gumby Bush

Without Versatile, I'd assume they draw out all the handshakes or something.

I think that the inspired/versitile solution would be:
"Each person shakes hands with 18 other people. That would be 18x20=360 handshakes, but I've counted each handshake twice. Therefore the answer is 360/2=180."

Incidentally, with combinatorics, this is 20C2=(20*19)/(2*1)=190, minus the 10 excluded ones for "not shaking hands with spouse".

Gumby Bush · 05-23-2019, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandy

I think that the inspired/versitile solution would be:
"Each person shakes hands with 18 other people. That would be 18x20=360 handshakes, but I've counted each handshake twice. Therefore the answer is 360/2=180."

I must not be awake yet. That is lovely.

Gumby Bush · 05-23-2019, 06:31 AM

My wife, who I am certain rolls at default for this, came up with 360 at first. When I told her it was wrong, she used Brandy's solution. So, I expect not a bad probability: I'd definitely give the +4 for routine use.

Hide · 05-23-2019, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandy

That would be 18x20=360 handshakes, but I've counted each handshake twice. Therefore the answer is 360/2=180."

I know the answer is right, but what's the logic behind "I counted each handshake twice"? What's the "dupe" handshake?

Fred Brackin · 05-23-2019, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hide

I know the answer is right, but what's the logic behind "I counted each handshake twice"? What's the "dupe" handshake?

Person 1 is married to Person 2 and therefore begins shaking hands with Person 3. When you start to count Person 3's handshakes you've already counted his shaking hands with Person 1.

Brandy · 05-23-2019, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hide

I know the answer is right, but what's the logic behind "I counted each handshake twice"? What's the "dupe" handshake?

I was at the party, and so was Mr. Smith. When I counted 18 handshakes for each of us, I included my handshake with Mr. Smith in his count and in mine.

Ha! Ninja'd by Fred.

05-23-2019, 05:21 AM	#1
coronatiger Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Trondheim, Norway	Mathematics If a low-tech character needs to figure out a maths puzzle, how would you model it? Assume the character doesn't have Mathematics skill. Example: Ten married couples meet at a party. How many handshakes will there be if everyone shakes hands with everyone but their own spouses? Edit: What should be the probability of an untrained person figuring out the correct answer? __________________ You don't need to spend 100 CP on Status 5 [25] and Multimillionaire [75] to feel like a princess, when Delusion [-10] will do. Character sheet: Google Drive link (See this thread for details.) Campaign logs: Chaotic Pioneering / Confessions of a Forked Tongue Last edited by coronatiger; 05-23-2019 at 05:24 AM.

05-23-2019, 05:42 AM	#2
AlexanderHowl Join Date: Feb 2016	Re: Mathematics Not likely, since the answer is over 100. Mathematics defaults to IQ-6, which means that the average person has an '8' for routine use. Now, with extra time, they can get up to '13', but I would say that they would need around half an hour to get up to that level. In the US education system, I would say that the average adult has 1 CP in Mathematics (Applied) if they have graduated high school (after all, K-4 is enough for the default, everything else is skill aquisition), which would give them a '12' for routine use. Of course, this assumes that they passed with a 'C', a 'B' student would have 2 CP and an 'A' student would have 4 CP, adjusted as needed for students with higher or lower IQ. For example, an IQ 12 person could graduate with an 'A' with 1 CP while an IQ 8 person would require 4 CP to graduate with a 'C'.

05-23-2019, 05:44 AM	#3
Gumby Bush Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: FL	Re: Mathematics Mathematics defaults to IQ-6. That problem is likely, oh, +0? I'd give +1 for Versatile. I know how to solve it without fancy equations (geometry diagram, is canonical, basically), but without paper I'd be at -1. With stats equations, it'd be easier, depending on TL (it's basically a fancy permutation problem, but those I've never memorized the equations for). However, a good roll, with Versatile providing a boost, results in this solution: There are 10 married couples, and each shakes hands with both members of the 9 other couples... Married couple1: 18h a piece Married couple2: 16h a piece besides the ones with mc1 etc... so, after mcn finished shaking hands, mc(n-1) has 2 fewer handshakes to make. 2x(18 + 16 + 14 + 12 + 10 + 8 + 6 + 4 + 2 + 0) = 180 (I expect I have a point in Mathematics, benefited from Versatile, and maybe took 2x time) A failure for a trained person means they probably read it like I did at first and saw 10 composed of couples... Without Versatile, I'd assume they draw out all the handshakes or something. __________________ Formerly known as fighting_gumby. Last edited by Gumby Bush; 05-23-2019 at 05:47 AM. Reason: Misread question

05-23-2019, 06:31 AM	#7
Gumby Bush Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: FL	Re: Mathematics My wife, who I am certain rolls at default for this, came up with 360 at first. When I told her it was wrong, she used Brandy's solution. So, I expect not a bad probability: I'd definitely give the +4 for routine use. __________________ Formerly known as fighting_gumby.