Katana reaches, swing vx thrust

[Blood Legend]

Originally Posted by Mark Caliber

Buyah! Snark! Snipe!

Death to the thread!

Your enthusiasm is delightful XD

I dont think that the players and NPC's always have to be in the exact centers of the hexes, more so you're also forgetting that players can take a whole step in any direction when attacking further increasing the range.

But still how do we model the real-life benefit of a curved blade? is +1 to fast-draw to much?

[benz72]

Originally Posted by Blood Legend

But still how do we model the real-life benefit of a curved blade? is +1 to fast-draw to much?

There are definately inherent speed advantages to some weapons in terms of fast draw. Very few people, given the same DX and time of study (skill) could FD a great maul as quickly as a dagger.
I would probably represent this with by making the skill FD X an average skill and FD Y a hard skill where X is a weapon longer than your arm and Y is more than twice as long as X. Probably a little granular still for your use, but at least it attempts to address the issue.

[Blood Legend]

+1 for fastdrawing short blades, +0 bonus for swords of normal length, +1 to any weapon with a curved blade. -1 for weapons that become unreadied after attack.

So a small curved knife would get +2, and -1 for large double bladed battle axes would that be reasonable? o_O potentially imbalancing?...then again its fast draw, not really much affect on gameplay after the weapon is out.

Also, can fast draw be used to re-ready a weapon after its been swung?

[Kazander]

Actually, by default, as per the skill description, FD cannot be used for any weapon other than Force Swords, Knives, Long Arms, Pistols, Swords or Two-Handed Swords. So no Axes or other unbalanced-type weapons.

This is reasonable, as these other types of weapons cannot be sheathed. It's the ease with which a weapon can be removed from a properly designed sheath or holster that really allows this skill to exist in the first place.

Consequently, the skill cannot be used to re-ready a weapon after it has been swung. As per the skill's description, it only allows you to "quickly draw a weapon from its holster, sheath, or hiding place." It mentions nothing of re-readying it after an unbalanced weapon after it has been swung.

Sorry. :-/ Actually, in 3ed, we used it the way you decribe, even though it wasn't supposed to. The skill description was vague enough to allow it at the time. And we weren't terribly well-informed or 'up' on realism. :-)

[Ragabash Moon]

Originally Posted by Kazander

Actually, by default, as per the skill description, FD cannot be used for any weapon other than Force Swords, Knives, Long Arms, Pistols, Swords or Two-Handed Swords. So no Axes or other unbalanced-type weapons.

This is reasonable, as these other types of weapons cannot be sheathed. It's the ease with which a weapon can be removed from a properly designed sheath or holster that really allows this skill to exist in the first place.

Consequently, the skill cannot be used to re-ready a weapon after it has been swung. As per the skill's description, it only allows you to "quickly draw a weapon from its holster, sheath, or hiding place." It mentions nothing of re-readying it after an unbalanced weapon after it has been swung.

I was going to say something similar to this, but didn't feel like looking it up to be sure, and didn't want to do a IDHMBWM post and be wrong, so figured if I was right, someone would speak up :)

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by DAlillama

Taht must have been corrected later. My books all say that it should be treated as a hatchet or small mace, depending on whether it was stone or steel.

______________________________________
The tomahawk was as I understand a sidearm, anolagous to a European infantry saber but more often used. Frontier fighting was mostly done with rifles, muskets and with indians, sometimes bows(which were used less often then tradition says, though they weren't really less efficient in that environment then muskets).

[ArmoredSaint]

Originally Posted by Mark Caliber

SO! You're Katana with a blade lenght of 40 inches will add that to your 30 inch arm gives you a total attack length of 70 inches. (Nicely into that second hex.)

AND your 45 inch long Bastard Sword attached to your 30 inch arm gets you a reach of 75 inches. (Still only as far as that same 2 hex length.)

No.

You're deliberately cherry-picking the very longest katana examples and selecting bastard swords from the short end of the spectrum to illustrate your point. Take a look at those katana measurements on that page I linked to again; even with the tsuka, it's likely that the vast majority of them do not even touch that 40-inch mark, and plenty of them might not even break the 36-inch mark. These are small swords. I don't think they deserve a 2-hex reach under any circumstances--thrusting or cutting.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by ArmoredSaint

No.

You're deliberately cherry-picking the very longest katana examples and selecting bastard swords from the short end of the spectrum to illustrate your point. Take a look at those katana measurements on that page I linked to again; even with the tsuka, it's likely that the vast majority of them do not even touch that 40-inch mark, and plenty of them might not even break the 36-inch mark. These are small swords. I don't think they deserve a 2-hex reach under any circumstances--thrusting or cutting.

The standard katana sold in mass production has a blade of 28"; depending on how it's marketed, this may mean a total length beyond the guard(tsuba) of 28 or 29". The handle is typically nine to twelve inches, and most katana style blades are 40 or 41" in overall length, not dangerous length.

From a vertical non-combat stance (d=0), I can take a step and thrust with my practice blade that brings the tip about 80" from the start (two blade lengths). Assuming I've started standing in the middle of a three-foot hex, I immediately lose 18" just in reach C. My foot lunges out about the length of the sword (40-41"), my hand a few inches more, maybe a foot, then 28" of blade.

So, I can reach with a dagger or other short weapon about 52" plus a few inches of blade. From d=0 to the back end of the next imaginary "hex" is 54", so basically we've just proved a full extension thrust with a knife is reach 1. A full extension thrust with my sword brings me 26 of 36" into the next hex (Reach 2). A true 40" BLADE, like some of the later rapiers, is a foot longer than my own sword, and would move a couple inches into Reach 3, but probalby not enough to make a credible claim as a Reach 3 weapon.

In guard stance, my blade tip is perhaps the full sword's length (40-41") from the center of my hex. Basically, standing in classic "ready" stance with such a weapon puts the tip of the blade about 28" into the next hex. The only way a person could stand in the hex adjacent to me were I holding my sword at the ready would be impaling himself on the blade or batting it aside.

However, he's perfectly safe from my casual stance two hexes away, but a step and attack maneuver is required.

In short, I don't have much problem with a katana being Reach 1. With a reverse grip, it can handle reach C, but not well (in my opinion; glad to hear of other training to counter it).

The group can tell me if the european swords featured in Museum Replicas are the proper lengths. But those called bastard swords had blade lengths of 30-36", "long" swords were 38-40", and "two handed swords" were 38-40". One, the Italian hand and a half sword, was 53" in overall length, 42" blade. At the ready, presumably it would extend about 53" from the centerline, or all the way through Reach 1, but not into Reach 2. It would easily hit reach two with a very short step, making it a credible reach 1,2 weapon on swing or thrust, much more so than the katana.

Anyway, just some musings from a guy who likes to play with swords.

See

[ArmoredSaint]

Well, do the figures given for "blade length" on the aoi-art page refer to the overall length of those bare katana blades or only to the length of the sharpened portion?

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by ArmoredSaint

Well, do the figures given for "blade length" on the aoi-art page refer to the overall length of those bare katana blades or only to the length of the sharpened portion?

The longest katana available on the Bugei website has a 15" handle and a 31" blade. Actually, it's a 31" "nagasa," which typically doesn't include some of the distance the habaki covers.

check out http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/measure.htm for a nice definition.

So, the longest swords offered for sale as "working quality" katana style swords can be maybe 46-47" in overall length, with about 31" of that as sharpened. It's much more typical to have on the 27-29" nagasa, plus an inch of habaki, plus another ten to twelve inches of handle (tsuka). So the sharpy bits of the joe average katana are on the order of 2' 4" long, and the grippy or non-deadly bits another 11-13".

In our school (which uses a katana, but we're a korean style), the rule of thumb I came up with to help people was 8" of blade and habaki plus 0.3 times your height in inches. The handle should be about three times the width of your palm. For me, at 68" tall, that's 28.5" of blade and habaki, and about an 11.5" handle. fortunately for me, that's darn near the most common sword size sold...