Throwing range

[jes722]

So i just calculated a ST 11 character with a 1 lb hand grenade, he can only throw that 28 yards.

I my self once threw a hand grenade well past 50 meters and im no buff monster!

Am i doing it wrong?

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by jes722

Am i doing it wrong?

That throwing range is to directly bean someone with it; those rules are for hitting people with rocks, boots, or baseballs. Lobbing something in a ballistic arc to land "thereish" is much more forgiving - I forget where it is, but I seem to recall something about a roughly 2x range multiplier for indirect fire.

[Ulzgoroth]

It looks to me like you did it wrong.

BL for ST 11 is 24, so your weight ratio is less than 0.05 and your distance multiplier is 3.5. 3.5 * 11 => 38 yard range.

That's still considerably shorter than your reported feat, and there's no easy way I can see to make up the last bit of that (you'd need ST 15, ultimately).

Originally Posted by Bruno

That throwing range is to directly bean someone with it; those rules are for hitting people with rocks, boots, or baseballs. Lobbing something in a ballistic arc to land "thereish" is much more forgiving - I forget where it is, but I seem to recall something about a roughly 2x range multiplier for indirect fire.

I'm pretty sure I've never seen a rule remotely like that. It's much easier to hit, but range is completely unaffected.

[Rolando]

Maybe part of your training is the throwing skill at Skill+1 or +2, giving you a +1 or +2 to ST for calculating throwing distances. At ST11 +2 for skill you can get that grenade some 45 yards range.

Also, you may have done some extra effort and didn't noticed as you passed the HT roll or because of adrenaline or motivation. Maybe you are stronger than you think.

With a little extra effort and a skill at +1 you can get the distance easily.

It is hard to measure these things, there are so many things going on and it was not lab measures. For example how many of those throws can you do in less than 20 seconds?

[Tomsdad]

What doesn't help here is you are hitting the highest threshold on the chart and well the chart's an abstraction involving thresholds!

Also maybe the grenade you threw wasn't exactly 1lb (the M67 is for example 0.9lb) but again you've hit the hard upper limit on that chart so it's not going to make a difference there even if it did real life*.

Then there's stuff like maybe the grenade you threw was a bit more aerodynamic than that table takes as a base assumption.


Also don't forget you might in real life have a point or two of throwing skill that can add to your ST for the calculation (some grenades were designed to be a culturally familiar shape here)

Maybe in your 50 yard throw there was in GURPS terms some extra effort. Although that said Extra effort in GURPS is a bit all or nothing, RL has a bit more range IMO.


Basically I wouldn't worry too much about it, there are several factors here that affect all this. If you thrown grenades 50 yards in RL just have your character who you peg as being roughly similar to you in this regard do so to!


EDIT: Ninja'd by Rolando


*basically because the chart tops out at 0.05 & 3.5 leaving aside all other factors a ST11 character wll throw any object of 1.2lb or less weight the maximum distance the chart will allow of 38.5 yards

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Rolando

Maybe part of your training is the throwing skill at Skill+1 or +2, giving you a +1 or +2 to ST for calculating throwing distances. At ST11 +2 for skill you can get that grenade some 45 yards range.

That helps a lot. Negligent reading for me!

Originally Posted by Rolando

Also, you may have done some extra effort and didn't noticed as you passed the HT roll or because of adrenaline or motivation. Maybe you are stronger than you think.

Extra Effort is possible, but it's pretty hard to get a substantial benefit without extraordinary will or pretty desperate motivation.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

Also it maybe the grenade you threw wasn't exactly 1lb (the M67 is for example 0.9lb) but again you've hit the hard upper limit on that chart so it not going to make different there even if it did real life*.

Seems dubious. When the projectile is light compared the fast part of the throwing mechanism (your hand and maybe lower arm, here) the benefit of making it even lighter diminishes quickly. Even before one questions limits of muscle speed.

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

Then there stuff like maybe the grenade you threw was bit more aerodynamic than that table takes as a base assumption.

That'd be a bit of a problem since that table is what GURPS provides for determining grenade ranges.

[Rolando]

I think the important point is that it is a game, and may have some simplifications and abstractions. A character with ST11 and little or no skill will throw a grenade 38 yards...

If you intend to translate yourself to GURPS you may put at ST11 and Throwing DX+2 (or ST 12 w/throwing DX+1?) as you have evidence of a feat of throwing that back it up.

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Seems dubious. When the projectile is light compared the fast part of the throwing mechanism (your hand and maybe lower arm, here) the benefit of making it even lighter diminishes quickly. Even before one questions limits of muscle speed.

Well I wasn't thinking in terms of ever increasing ranges tied to ever reducing weights, in a strict linear relationship where one tends to infinity as the other tends to 0!

Just making the point that a in a lot of the table the lighter the weight the further the same ST throws it, and because of the threshold nature of the table a small weight difference in weight can make big difference in effect depending on where you land on it (but as I said it irrelevant because the table tops out).

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

That'd be a bit of a problem since that table is what GURPS provides for determining grenade ranges.

Or you just say, huh that table is based on thresholds and tops out in a weird place for some combinations of BL and object weight. At the same time saying aerodynamics is a thing that can vary by object, even if the table doesn't hard bake the variation in, and say yeah you know what chucking grenades 50 yards is reasonable. I know this because I have done it.

For me problem solved! ;-)

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by Rolando

I think the important point is that it is a game, and may have some simplifications and abstractions. A character with ST11 and little or no skill will throw a grenade 38 yards...

If you intend to translate yourself to GURPS you may put at ST11 and Throwing DX+2 (or ST 12 w/throwing DX+1?) as you have evidence of a feat of throwing that back it up.

Bingo +1

cheers

TD