Legal modifiers with luck

[ericthered]

these have come up a few times in the PbP forum, and while never allowed, its never been disqualified on the grounds they aren't RAW:

Luck as an alternative ability:
It has been claimed due to a ruling on ammunition that using up an instance of luck does not disable abilities that luck is an alternative of, merely that no other alternates can be active. Of course, most legitimate alternates are passive rather than active, so its not terribly abusive...

Reliable on Luck:
it has been claimed that reliable at +10 on luck allows +10 to be added to all luck rolls. So far its always been shot down by a GM saying 'reliable is always at GM's option and I say no' rather than 'It doesn't work that way'.

Are these builds legal?

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by ericthered

these have come up a few times in the PbP forum, and while never allowed, its never been disqualified on the grounds they aren't RAW:

Luck as an alternative ability:
It has been claimed due to a ruling on ammunition that using up an instance of luck does not disable abilities that luck is an alternative of, merely that no other alternates can be active. Of course, most legitimate alternates are passive rather than active, so its not terribly abusive...

What's the difference between not being able to activate an alternate ability while the time runs out and that ability being disabled? I'm not seeing how it's a meaningful distinction.

Reliable on Luck:
it has been claimed that reliable at +10 on luck allows +10 to be added to all luck rolls. So far its always been shot down by a GM saying 'reliable is always at GM's option and I say no' rather than 'It doesn't work that way'.

I don't think that Talent adds to Luck rerolls, so I don't think reliable does this either.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by ericthered

Luck as an alternative ability:
It has been claimed due to a ruling on ammunition that using up an instance of luck does not disable abilities that luck is an alternative of, merely that no other alternates can be active.

Not sure what that means. I would just say that the 1 hour between uses only counts down when the Luck power is active.

Originally Posted by ericthered

Reliable on Luck:
it has been claimed that reliable at +10 on luck allows +10 to be added to all luck rolls.

Reliable adds to rolls to use the power. There is no roll to use Luck, the rolls you are making are on other abilities. Thus, reliable on Luck has no effect.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

I don't think that Talent adds to Luck rerolls, so I don't think reliable does this either.

It does, if you actively use it - but I wouldn't allow Reliable.

Originally Posted by GURPS Powers p. 59

Talent gives a bonus to any die
roll influence by Luck – but only if that
use of Luck is declared in advance.

[Dustin]

Originally Posted by ericthered

Luck as an alternative ability:
It has been claimed due to a ruling on ammunition that using up an instance of luck does not disable abilities that luck is an alternative of, merely that no other alternates can be active. Of course, most legitimate alternates are passive rather than active, so its not terribly abusive...

Reliable on Luck:
it has been claimed that reliable at +10 on luck allows +10 to be added to all luck rolls. So far its always been shot down by a GM saying 'reliable is always at GM's option and I say no' rather than 'It doesn't work that way'.

If Luck is part of an Alternative Ability set, it has to be tied to the other abilities in some way that makes it less useful than buying it normally (otherwise, why the discount?). Typically I would require that it be currently and exclusively active (no other alternates in use, even if they're passive), and during its recharge period, the AA set is unavailable.

For Reliable, just no. As Anthony said, it would have to apply to some sort of 'Luck roll' itself, and not to the re-rolls that it grants.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by ericthered

Luck as an alternative ability

I'd say it's as legal as any other alternative ability, but you have to have explicitly declared its the one up before you made any roll you then decide to influence with Luck, and that the recharge time counts as a period your Luck is on - so you can't switch to another alternative ability until it comes back.

That's actually something I'd do in general. If you want to put a limited use ability into an AA, a Modular Ability or anything like that, it's fine, but you can't switch to a different one until it's completely recharged. The core here is you have to kill abuses like I configure my Modular Ability for Extra Fatigue, spend all the fatigue, switch it to something else for a second, and reconfigure to a different Extra Fatigue and spend it all again....

Hey, if you want to put a One Use ability into a modular slot, I'd let you, whereupon using the ability means losing the slot forever.

Reliable on Luck:
it has been claimed that reliable at +10 on luck allows +10 to be added to all luck rolls.

It adds to all the rolls to use your Luck advantage. Too bad there isn't one.
The additional rolls Luck gives you aren't rolls against your Luck advantage, but against something else. To make the difference really clear, imagine using Luck to re-do a roll to activate an advantage with it's own Reliable enhancement.

[corwyn]

Originally Posted by malloyd

I'd say it's as legal as any other alternative ability, but you have to have explicitly declared its the one up before you made any roll you then decide to influence with Luck, and that the recharge time counts as a period your Luck is on - so you can't switch to another alternative ability until it comes back.

I believe that Powers: Divine Favour says you are wrong. The prayer, Conviction, grants Ridiculous Luck, usable every 30 minutes. No mention of it disabling DF.

I find it abusive myself, effectively granting RL (active) for 3 points, but there you go.

[David Johnston2]

I agree with the idea that you'd have to leave your AA on Luck to recharge your Luck and otherwise it doesn't interfere with the other abilities.

[The Benj]

I wouldn't allow it as an AA, unless using it up disabled your other alternate abilities until it recharges.

I definitely wouldn't allow Reliable on it, as then you could get +4 for 3 points, which seems rather excessive.

[Celjabba]

Same here.

I have used and allowed luck as an AA.
No problem.
I ruled that if used, you disable the whole set for the duration between luck use.
This follow the spirit of the rules (Power p11) if not the letter.

You can certainly put reliable on luck, but unless you also add an activation roll to trigger luck, it does nothing. It definitively does not add to the roll you use luck on !

Celjabba