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Old 05-29-2020, 12:16 AM   #11
ckosacranoid
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Default Re: The shurkin challenge.

I just have to say one thing....Oops. totally forgot about that. Thanks for bringing that up again. 2013....been a few years though.
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Old 06-01-2020, 01:09 PM   #12
swordtart
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: The shurkin challenge.

Shiruken Trainer by Swordtart:
Luxury; Light chassis; Light suspension;
Medium PP;
4 Standard tires.
Driver.
Vehicular Shotgun w/10xStandard.
Fire Extinguisher.
46 pts. Plastic Armour (F: 10 R: 8 L: 8 B: 6 T: 4 U: 4);
1x10 pt. FP CA (plant), 1x10 pt. FP CA (VS)
Cost: $4,660, Wgt: 3,580.
HC: 1, Top Speed: 100, Accel: 5.
Cargo 601lb, 9 spaces.

You want your kids to learn to fight safely. You don't have the budget for fancy gear and you don't want them getting dependent on fancy electronic gizmos. You really don't want them taking the family car out and getting themselves killed.

Family Custom take surplus Shirukens (which frankly is all of them), strips out the unnecessary complications and stiffens up the internal protection on every component. The reliable Vehicular Shotgun allows even novice shooters a reasonable chance of success in practice bouts. Even teens who push their luck in peer battles are only likely to end up with scars to underline their learning (Family Custom recommend paint ammunition for pre-teen duellists - tough love only goes so far). As a final safety consideration we put the plant behind the crew compartment to discourage head-on collisions (the primary cause of death for teen drivers).

The trainer is technically Division 5 legal but is not designed to be competitive. The plant can handle over 600lb cargo and there is plenty of space for a dedicated gunner, some passengers for cruising or even a grocery run if you are angling for a higher allowance.


The original Shiruken was a poor design and where it reached its intended market was criminally weak. Taking that poor design and weakening it further was a risky strategy for Family Custom and whilst it never quite hit its advertised target audience (most parents still preferred to use simulators to train their offspring), the Trainer found a surprise outlet in dirt poor provincial arenas.

Nicknamed "The Coffin" by the unfortunates slated to compete in them, it was popular with arena management due to its comparative durability. Comparative that is, to the drivers (and occasionally Gunners in team events). Where several identical cars were pitted against each other, most breaches ended up incapacitating the crew before any internal components took damage. The injury to event ratio was higher than for the majority of common amateur event vehicles and easily satisfied the blood for treasure ethic of the arena.

With crew vulnerability designed in, surrender on breach was common and this, plus the fire extinguisher and the low damage yield of the Vehicular Shotgun, meant that whilst injury was higher than average, competitor deaths were significantly lower than average. This and the low cost per round of ammunition also made the vehicle cheap to maintain and run for the Arena. With the only payout usually a minor cash prize to the winner plus an appearance fee per competitor that was probably best invested in event medical insurance, once the capital costs were dealt with, each event might cost the Arena less than $1-2000 to stage in recurrent costs.

An eggshell armed with a pea shooter, bouts were often of equivalent length to more costly matches easing the budgets of small town arenas. For many in these economically depressed places, arena success was their only route out of poverty. Surprisingly, the Shiruken Trainer may not have been the worst vehicle for that journey.

Last edited by swordtart; 06-01-2020 at 03:51 PM.
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Old 06-06-2020, 02:05 PM   #13
swordtart
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: The shurkin challenge.

Shiruken Taxi by Swordtart:
Luxury; Light chassis; Light suspension;
Large PP w/HTMs;
4 PR Radial tires.
Driver.
1s Turret T with Machine Gun w/20xExplosive.
Fire Extinguisher; Mini-Safe - Small;
2 x Passenger (150lb, 2 Spc each)
Armour 60 pts. Plastic (F: 10 R: 10 L: 10 B: 10 T: 10 U: 10);
2x5 pt. Plastic Hubs F; 2x5 pt. Plastic Hubs, 2x5 pt. Plastic Guards B;
1x10 pt., 2 spc. Plastic CA (Driver); 1x10 pt., 6 spc. Plastic CA (Plant); 1x10 pt., 2 spc. Plastic CA (2 x Passengers); 1x10 pt., 1 spc. Plastic CA (Minisafe).
Cargo 1 Spc, 50lb
Cost: $10,540, Wgt: 4,900, HC: 2
Top Speed: 102.5 (77.5), Accel: 5 (10).

Option A:
Upgrade turret to two space. Replace MG with RL (10 x std ammo). Remove 1spc and 50lb Cargo. Cost: $10,390, Wgt: 4,950.

Option A1:
Upgrade turret to two space. Replace MG with 2 x linked MML (20 x std ammo). Remove 1spc and 50lb Cargo. Cost: $10,990, Wgt: 4,950.

The Shiruken when new was one of the cheapest Luxuries on the market. Most customers upgraded to a better car as soon as their finances allowed it however the second hand value offered by car lots reflected the designs worthlessness.

Sadly the underfunded businessmen who had been forced to buy a Shiruken as Taxi or Courier were unable to simply write-off their purchase and buy something less lethal. As a result of the thin margins such business men operated within these vehicles were usually upgraded gradually as funds allowed and technology became available. Often the eventual result cost as much as a far more capable vehicle.

This design has been optimised for urban combat (if optimised can be applied to a vehicle that has "growed" like Topsy). The biggest threat such vehicles could realistically withstand are pedestrians (and usually poorly armed ones at that). The use of explosive ammunition also indicates that pedestrians were the primary target of this vehicle.

As a consumable, tires would need replacing in time anyway and the additional cost of Radials to improve one of the major failings is an cost effective upgrade. As in this case, owners might upgrade to a more durable tire at the same time. The addition of even minimal wheel guards and hubs can greatly improve the longevity of these expensive consumables especially against hand weapons, which often cannot penetrate them at all.

Shirukens have plenty of space for cargo and passengers but so little weight that this space is often wasted. This operator has chosen to focus on managing a reasonable two passenger allowance and used the remaining space to armour every component on the vehicle but the weapon (which is probably safe enough up in the turret). CA is light and cheap and easy to retrofit. For the majority of components this is no more expensive (and is lighter) than adding extra armour layers and has the benefit of guaranteeing protection (as opponents seldom need to strip all external armour from every facing before they start damaging the internal components, but have to destroy all of the component armour). Internal armour also has the benefit of providing a buffer against fire damage if the extinguisher takes a few seconds to work. The mini-safe provides additional protection and with its component armour provides a useful extra slab of armour that may find itself between a vital component and harm.

The cargo capacity even with all the CA is not unreasonable and allows profitable runs.

Up-gunning is usually recommended, but there isn't actually much that can be usefully done with the poor weight budget. Additional (effective) weapons are usually too expensive for an incremental purchase. Here the single MG has been kept, but it has been placed in a turret to provide some all-round defence. The fighter configuration was suicidal in the basic model, but here at least the driver can draw a bead without having to slew an ungainly vehicle to gain a firing arc. This was probably the most expensive upgrade and required re-modelling of the roof, so it was probably the last update.

Alternative configurations have a larger turret and a rocket launcher (or twin Micromissile Launchers), these are more use in Dreg ghettos where the the inherent inaccuracy of rocket weapons is less of an issue.

At some point HTMs were added to improve the performance (now the upgraded handling makes control loss less likely). This is comparatively expensive upgrade but might allow more scope for escape and evasion and so may pay for itself in the longer run.

At this point the vehicle becomes woefully inefficient. The next logical upgrade is to remove every component and re-fit it into a new chassis that is worth upgrading. It should be remembered that the whilst the chassis, suspension and armour are very poor, they were designed to be cheap. If you toss all that in the trash, you are therefore not loosing much either (about $640 for the body and another $1200 for the armour - so you might recoup a few hundred dollars in salvage). You local dealer may even be able to swap those armour panels onto an improved body.

Basically next time you need to make major armour repairs you should be looking to recycle the Shiruken body and get a better one with a decent chassis and suspension. If you have survived this long you deserve it and don't let sentiment prevent you.

That car has been trying to kill you since you bought it!
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Old 06-07-2020, 03:33 AM   #14
swordtart
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: The shurkin challenge.

Shiruken Re-life Programme.

So you bought a Shiruken and regretted it the same day. You have looked at the options, but that weak chassis and suspension have been holding you back.

Maybe your local salvage yard has the solution for you? In this article we explore the most economical options to turn that clunker with baked in obsolescence into something a little more scale-able.


Unfortunately it costs more to upgrade your chassis and suspension than it would cost to manufacture better ones from scratch so this isn't a service any garage will provide. The plant in the Shiruken was fine (and with aftermarket superconductors can support the heaviest chassis), the MG whilst basic is still a reliable choice. So what would it cost to move all of that stuff to a more credible body?

Of the $6040 cost of the Shiruken a fraction over 10% went on the the immutable components (Body cost $640). We would normally expect a 1/3 saving when fitting a component ourselves so we can reasonably expect a garage to charge that 1/3 to install one you bring to them. As Salvage and Install are mirror processes we can expect the same cost to apply to removing the component.

Can we just remove the body "component" and replace it? If we could that would only cost 1/3 of $640! Unfortunately every other component is bolted to the body (rather than to each other) so to remove the body is equivalent to removing every component.

Removing every component costs 1/3 of the $5400 component cost (or $1800). We can sell the body for half it's value or $320. We can then buy a better chassis (lets plump for a X-Hvy chassis and Hvy suspension as the best candidate for later expansion - though the plant will need upgrading if we are to take full advantage of the extra capacity it offers), let's say $2800 (at least there is no installation cost). Re-installing every component carries a 10% surcharge for retrofit, plus the 1/3 cost (so $1980).

Total project cost 1800 - 320 + 2800 + 1980 = $6,260. Remember this is in addition to the original 6040. This means we have paid $12,300 for a vehicle that is only worth $8200, representing a loss of $4100 (a 50% mark-up). For comparison if you just sold the Shiruken at it's base salvage value and bought the final configuration you would only have lost $3020 (a 37% mark-up)

Of course this assumes you are paying a garage to do the work for you. This becomes a more credible plan if you do the work yourself. You still need to pay the 10% of all components, but this equates to $540. With the sale of the old body this is only a loss of $860, a fraction over 10%.

The question is, how much of this can realistically be done yourself. Most amateurs can probably handle everything but the plant with basic tools and enough time. But for a businessman time is also money. Fortunately as there are so few components in a Shiruken* even with basic mechanics skills and a portable shop you could reasonably get it all done in a weekend without impacting your business too much.

Your best bet therefore might be to get your upgraded body with the plant already factory fitted delivered to your door ($4800)**. You can then swap over the remaining components yourself ($340). Finally you can sell the old body with its plant still fitted for salvage (recouping $1320). The project cost here is $3820 making the overall cost $9860 (around 20% mark-up). This is probably better than the terms you would have got on a loan way back when you couldn't do any better and were forced to buy the Shiruken in the first place. Some suppliers may agree to take the salvage value off the cost of the replacement body and plant in advance to reduce your up-front costs. Others may insist that tires need to be fitted to delivered bodies to facilitate delivery. As always, shop around for the best deal.

If you don't have the necessary skill, try to cut a deal with one of the apprentice mechanics at your local arena. They earn less than $300 per week so a few hundred bucks will probably be enough. Alternatively some Boy Scout Commando units help out local businessmen (a similar sized donation would be appreciated). Many Commandos are highly skilled and may even be able to fit a plant. Of course Scouts also hold sales of salvage, so you might get a better deal here than your garage if you are not choosy. If you support your local scout unit already they may consider upgrading your Shiruken as a group project.

Of course none of these options make the end result a combat worthy car, we have only upgraded the handling. But at least now you have a basis for upgrading the car further.

* The Tires are 2 trivial tasks each (so even your kids can get on with this while you handle the other parts). By the book this should take 8 hours, but this seems excessive. That leaves just the FE, the gun and the armour. These are easy tasks and assuming Mechanic 0 and a portable shop take on average 12 hours to salvage and re-install all of them. I think the mechanic rules need changing (as posted elsewhere) but even with those rules rebuilding a Shiruken is still a weekend job.

**If you are willing to toss the armour (and possibly the tires) you don't even have to go for the same body type, but then you are really just in the salvage game so we won't explore this further.

Last edited by swordtart; 06-07-2020 at 03:42 AM.
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Old 06-07-2020, 01:36 PM   #15
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Default Re: The shurkin challenge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by swordtart View Post
Can we just remove the body "component" and replace it?
Hmm -- my files do have quite a few "downsized" Luxury cars in it (M-S _Chameleon_, _Bombardier_; Compact _Sizzler_; etc.).... :)
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Old 06-11-2020, 05:54 PM   #16
juris
 
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Location: CA
Default Re: The shurkin challenge.

I revise my entry:

Shuriken 2042 -- Streamlined Luxury, Light chassis, Light suspension, 300 cid engine w/Multibarrel Carb and VP Turbocharger and 1 tank of Nitrous Oxide, 10-gal Racing Tank, 4 Puncture-Resistant Radial tires, Driver w/BA and 10-pt CA, Machine Gun Front w/10-pt CA, Smokescreen Back w/10-pt CA, Roll Cage, Spoiler, Airdam, Sloped Plastic Armor: F20, L15, R15, B17, T10, U10, 2 5-pt Wheelguards Back, 2 5-pt Wheelhubs Front, Acceleration 15, Top Speed 125, HC 2 (3 @60mph), 4950 lbs., $19984

Can you add streamlining post-production? UACFH says streamlining doesn't effect chassis and suspension modifications...

Note the roll cage if it crashes due to poor handling.

I'd say it's definitely worth 2 stock Shuriken, it even uses the same MG ;)
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Old 06-12-2020, 10:06 AM   #17
swordtart
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: The shurkin challenge.

I'd say streamlining was mostly how you applied your armour contour and style the coachwork (i.e. the frame). You loose some space from the vehicle but that is not in width or length, probably just making it less like a Volvo (boxy but good!).

The rules say "chassis and suspension cannot be changed from their original design". You are not changing those two components by implementing streamlining. The only other component that has to be original equipment is the Roll Cage. As such I'd say it is a legit aftermarket mod (but it would need an entire new armour shell if you were to retrofit it (which is generally the cheapest way anyway).

I am not sure how much sense any of this makes though as you can't change your suspension, but you can fit Active Suspension. You can fit a sun roof or turret (either of which would place very different load on your frame). I don't think a CA Frame must be original equipment (but it would make the maths rather hard since the chassis and suspension cost are determined after CA Frame is taken into account. Surely shock absorbers are part of the suspension, but HD shocks can be after market.
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Old 06-12-2020, 10:37 AM   #18
swordtart
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: The shurkin challenge.

Track Shiruken by Swordtart:
Luxury; Streamlining; Light chassis; Light suspension;
500 cid Engine w/VP Turbo, Super Charger;
19 gal. Racing tank;
4 Hvy Duty Slick tires.
Driver.
Fire Extinguisher;
Safety Seat;
HD Shocks, HD Brakes, ABS;
Spoiler; Airdam.
60 pts. Plastic (F: 10 R: 10 L: 10 B: 10 T: 10 U: 10);
1x9 pt., 2 spc. FP CA (Driver).
Cost: $33,945, Wgt: 4,950,
HC: 3 (4), Top Speed: 200, Accel: 25.

Juris entry prompted the question how fast can a Shiruken go. Actually pretty fast and with a 0-60 time of 4 seconds (which is pretty nippy for a non-racing frame). You probably want a forgiving track as the handling is only adequate (but we have fitted as much safety equipment as possible to keep you alive). Even so I wouldn't want to go faster than 200 on even an un-congested track and racing is going to be... challenging.

The MG was stripped for this version and it is therefore only for racing. With only 10 layers of armour, you are going to want to focus all your efforts on not crashing rather than trying to shoot anyone.
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Old 06-12-2020, 12:51 PM   #19
juris
 
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: CA
Default Re: The shurkin challenge.

And the answer is 200 mph lol

Yep, the only use of the Lt. chassis is for racing. It's really great on racing vehicles - saves a lot of money because they're all CA frames.

All I'm gonna say is it's called Car Wars, you forgot to add guns ;)

I could totally see this as a TV show in the CW universe - to pimp out lame designs.

Candidates for future shows - the Joseph Special, the Killer Kart (obviously), and the Hotshot.

[QUOTE=swordtart;2328301]Track Shiruken by Swordtart:

Cost: $33,945, Wgt: 4,950,
HC: 3 (4), Top Speed: 200, Accel: 25.

Juris entry prompted the question how fast can a Shiruken go. QUOTE]
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Old 06-12-2020, 02:41 PM   #20
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Default Re: The shurkin challenge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by juris View Post
I could totally see this as a TV show in the CW universe - to pimp out lame designs.

Candidates for future shows - the Joseph Special, the Killer Kart (obviously), and the Hotshot.
I'm working on my webpage, which will have a section which is "_Roadkill_ meets _Car Wars_".

One of the projects involves a _Joseph Special_ with 120 MPH top speed... and HC 2.... >:)
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