[Basic] Advantage of the Week: Gunslinger

[awesomenessofme1]

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

I suppose that could be the case given certain types of games. I don't know of GMs who would let you sink tons of points in Guns skill(s). In games where the GM says "No skills over X" Gunslinger becomes quite the prize because it is (as you note) effectively a bonus to Guns in certain situations plus gives you access to certain traits that most folks can't get. You can't just look at it as "raw skill vs. Gunslinger" for the same reason you can't look at Trained by a Master or Weapon Master that way.

I suppose, but the thing about that enhancement is that it's nothing but the skill bonus. All the interesting stuff you get from it is granted by the base advantage.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by awesomenessofme1

I suppose, but the thing about that enhancement is that it's nothing but the skill bonus. All the interesting stuff you get from it is granted by the base advantage.

It's a "skill bonus" that stacks with regular skill. I fully expect commandos with it to use a 50 call sniper rifle for +9 to skill without aiming or +5 to skill while on the move and ignoring the bulk penalty. The former let's you take an eye shot at no penalty, while the latter lets you jump like a jack rabbit in and out of combat with big Bulk weapons.

Or heck, using that +7 bonus for suppression fire from an entrenched position with say, a M242 Bushmaster. It's brutal. I've seen it happen in game. There are certain intangibles associated with the cinematic fighting traits that do no present themselves especially well. You gotta dig a bit.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

I suppose that could be the case given certain types of games. I don't know of GMs who would let you sink tons of points in Guns skill(s). In games where the GM says "No skills over X" Gunslinger becomes quite the prize because it is (as you note) effectively a bonus to Guns in certain situations plus gives you access to certain traits that most folks can't get. You can't just look at it as "raw skill vs. Gunslinger" for the same reason you can't look at Trained by a Master or Weapon Master that way.

For Weapon Master you can't cleanly compare to skill because Weapon Master gives damage bonuses. Trained By A Master you almost can - the only thing it does that isn't equivalent to a conditional skill bonus is providing an Unusual Background for cinematic/supernatural martial arts skill.

Of course, in contexts where you aren't allowed to allocate the points into skill instead (be it due to skill caps or point buckets or what have you) making such a cost-effectiveness comparison is pointless.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

I suppose that could be the case given certain types of games. I don't know of GMs who would let you sink tons of points in Guns skill(s). In games where the GM says "No skills over X" .

I've never met one of those and it's certainly.....let's be polite and call it"odd" in a game that would permit Gunslinger. If I were to declare such a limitation it would be to forbid a ranged combat monter and not to require that such a monster be made with Ads instead of Skills.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

I've never met one of those and it's certainly.....let's be polite and call it"odd" in a game that would permit Gunslinger. If I were to declare such a limitation it would be to forbid a ranged combat monter and not to require that such a monster be made with Ads instead of Skills.

Letting someone buy, say 80 points in Guns would get side eye from me as a GM - and I'm sure others too. It literally points this sort of thing out in the Basic Set, p. 172 under the Masters section of Choosing Your Skill levels where it advises you to pick up peripheral skills as well as (for the example) Trained by a Master.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

Letting someone buy, say 80 points in Guns would get side eye from me as a GM - and I'm sure others too. It literally points this sort of thing out in the Basic Set, p. 172 under the Masters section of Choosing Your Skill levels where it advises you to pick up peripheral skills as well as (for the example) Trained by a Master.

<shrug>A lot of that is advice to players and not GMs. I might advise a would be player simiiarly but I wouldn't legislate agaisnt him. I might cause a cow to fall out of a clear blue sky to rid my game of his character but I wouldn't try and make _rules_ about it.

First you try and make trules and then you end up arguing with jpokers who think they can follow the letter of your rules while perverting their intent. As a GM I am an almost always benvolent tyrant but I don't try and create perfect rules about how to make characters. I exercise my informed judgement.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

<shrug>A lot of that is advice to players and not GMs. I might advise a would be player simiiarly but I wouldn't legislate agaisnt him. I might cause a cow to fall out of a clear blue sky to rid my game of his character but I wouldn't try and make _rules_ about it.

First you try and make trules and then you end up arguing with jpokers who think they can follow the letter of your rules while perverting their intent. As a GM I am an almost always benvolent tyrant but I don't try and create perfect rules about how to make characters. I exercise my informed judgement.

I'm just pointing out how RAW would handle it. Of course the GM's judgement comes into play. If you're comfortable with having someone with DX+24 Guns (Pistol) then by all means, carry on. But that's bludgeoning the system over the head and taking its lunch money. Buy a decent Guns skill then buy things like Gunslinger, Extra Attack, Enhanced Tracking, etc.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

I'm just pointing out how RAW would handle it. Of course the GM's judgement comes into play. If you're comfortable with having someone with DX+24 Guns (Pistol) then by all means, carry on. But that's bludgeoning the system over the head and taking its lunch money. Buy a decent Guns skill then buy things like Gunslinger, Extra Attack, Enhanced Tracking, etc.

Why do you think one of those options is acceptable and the other not. Possibly the player doesn't want to dig into complex rules and has chosen the simplest way to acheive his goals?


Make a good character with Guns=30 and I'll smile and waive. Make a bad character with Guns-16 and four different Ads and Techniques and I'll warn you once and then I'll drop a cow on him.

Complexity of your character build will not establish your authenticity.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Why do you think one of those options is acceptable and the other not. Possibly the player doesn't want to dig into complex rules and has chosen the simplest way to acheive his goals?


Make a good character with Guns=30 and I'll smile and waive. Make a bad character with Guns-16 and four different Ads and Techniques and I'll warn you once and then I'll drop a cow on him.

Complexity of your character build will not establish your authenticity.

Complexity doesn't equal authenticity, but an authentic character is probably more complex than Guns at 30. The Basic Set literally suggests that a skill of 25 is probably high enough for most uses of a skill and How to Be a GURPS GM reinforces that. You don't run like that. Cool. Rules Zero. But that's how the Basic Set suggests you mark your skill levels and again, How to Be a GURPS GM backs it up.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

. You don't run like that. Cool. Rules Zero. .

I never said that. What I said was the part you keep ignoring about "good character" v. "bad character". Game mechancial orthodoxy is largely orthoganol to whether or not a character is one or the other..