10-15-2020, 09:27 PM | #21 |
Join Date: Feb 2016
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Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Gadgeteer
Thus, one of the many reasons that I replaced Gadgeteer with Superscience RPM (which I call Advanced Scientific Procedures or ASP). Procedural Genius (its version of Ritual Adept) allows for the equivalent of quick gadgeteering, though in a more stylish manner. It actually allows for settings like Girl Genius and Narbonic without that much difficulty (unlike Gadgeteer, which breaks down and cries).
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10-15-2020, 10:19 PM | #22 |
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Gadgeteer
But then we aren't talking about gadgeteers mass producing items two TLs ahead of their time and flinging all of society centuries into the future.
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10-16-2020, 12:19 AM | #23 |
Join Date: Apr 2020
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Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Gadgeteer
"But now, we're not talking about the exact same thing" - Yeah, that's true, but I can't work with that objection except to say that you're posing it. Yes that's a difference - Why is it a significant difference? People transition large numbers of TLs in the Core Rulebook (Hi, Dai), so it's clearly possible to move someone up the ladder individually. You can raise your personal tech level because these are the only circumstances under which you can get high TL IQ skills at all. So, either A, the Gadgeteer doesn't have high TL and thus is working off of truly insane base rolls and has not invested the time and energy to raise his own TL for whatever reason or, B, the Gadgeteer does have High TL and could teach it himself.
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10-16-2020, 12:49 AM | #24 |
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Gadgeteer
Obviously, Gadgeteer is a must for certain genres like Steampunk or certain types of SF but it's a tough one to GM to control. It can really bog down play in games that are intended to be light and fast-moving.
Gadgeteer can also might be difficult for players to handle unless they've got a very good handle on the rules for research, inventions, etc. The Gizmos variant of Gadgeteer is much easier to handle both as a GM or as a player. I believe that there is a variant or limitation to Gadgeteer which repurposes it into a super repair power. That's more appropriate for cinematic mechanics and scroungers. One bit missing from the Gadgeteer advantage is the ability to create gadgets, do research, or repair a device in a miraculously short period of time or with limited supplies. (e.g., Cinematic SF doctor whips up a cure for the Denebian Pox overnight, while the engineer completely rebuilds the ship's hyperdrives in just a few minutes using only baling wire and beer cans.) The ability to work at superhuman speeds might require at least one level of ATR in addition to Gadgeteer, or at least levels of Reduced Sleep. Making repairs with limited parts or tools might require Serendipity or similar. |
10-16-2020, 01:45 AM | #25 |
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dreamland
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Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Gadgeteer
Two things that have come up;
Gadgeteer! is a broad wildcard skill that covers any skill but only for the purposes of using Gadgeteer. It's entirely unrealistic and for the kind of characters like Doofenshmirtz who can make wild and crazy gadgets and have zero idea of how they actually function outside of 'push this button to turn it on, push this one to self-destruct'. A common feature my players take is that you can't mass produce your gadgets (you don't even get any bonus to creating an item you already invented) but your stuff also can't be reverse-engineered because "it's too complex". I find this neatly solves any problem the advantage brings and keeps it in the realm of making things you need instead of making things as a job and increasing the TL. Note that this doesn't stop enemy gadgeteers from copying your work; they get no bonus from finding your suit but can scavenge it for parts and create Dark Iron Man with their own invention rules. |
10-16-2020, 02:03 AM | #26 | |
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: South Dakota, USA
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Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Gadgeteer
Quote:
I also wondered about a Gadgeteer restricted to only refining existing tech, though my example was probably more confusing than intended. I focused on Quick Gadgeteering examples, but it would still be relevant for non-adventuring. They don't - for example - invent your gun, your mobile device, your car, etc. but they can make it better. If the setting permits, they may even still advance Tech Levels, but only for technology that has a counterpart in the current Tech Level. Unrelated to my previous post, but something being discussed already in the thread: I have never run a character using this Advantage, and only ever slapped it on an NPC as justification for why [insert group] has access to advanced technology. So I do not know what it takes to keep Gadgeteers from throwing gamebalance out the window. One thought I did have, however, was that at least non-Quick Gadgeteers still need a lot of time and resources. As GM, and as long as everyone understands it will be ahead of time, could you make it clear that conditions to invent will be precious? In fact, that might be the reward for completing a series of adventures: securing the funding, the materials, the manpower, the location, and the time free from distractions for the Gadgeteer to do its thing?
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10-16-2020, 02:28 AM | #27 | ||
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Gadgeteer
Quote:
Note that all your objections about manufacturing would apply just as much to non-Gadgeteer inventors whose inventions cross a TL boundary. You won't find any more factory workers one TL ahead than you will three TL ahead. If said objections had had any foundation in the rules to begin with, that is. Quote:
Once it goes to production there's no advantage to being a Gadgeteer. (Reading strictly, there's actually a disadvantage, but that's probably an error.)
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I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident. Last edited by Ulzgoroth; 10-16-2020 at 02:54 AM. |
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10-16-2020, 05:10 AM | #28 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: U.K.
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Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Gadgeteer
Quote:
Cinematic Gadgeteer runs through superhero comics like an excessive quantity of cheese through a toasted sandwich (and also shows up in superhero movies), to the point where it's been lampshaded quite often - the number of villains who just try to get into Reed Richards' lab notes is probably quite large, and Iron Man got to fight virtually every other power-armoured character in the Marvel Universe that time that the GM reminded him of that Vow and hinted that they were all pinching his ideas. Though I think that Lex Luthor's ten-minute consultation on the Swamp Thing problem was probably the apex deployment of the advantage. Even if Lex does employ people to do the actual engineering for him. Basic Gadgeteer, on the other hand, I tend to interpret as a license to make a habit of using the invention rules. They allow quite a lot for a moderately high-points character, and GMs might get grumpy about characters who spend all their spare time sitting in a lab forcing decisions about what is realistically possible -- but "Dude, I spent 25 points for this -- it's too late for you to complain!" Alternatively, see it as an Unusual Background to reflect the difference between someone who's just a good engineer and one of those rare but entirely real people who make a decent living from holding a whole stack of (100% legitimate) patents. As the player of the Monster Hunters gadgeteer who John and Roger previously mentioned, I'm having fun, but I sometimes feel that I'm not getting full use out of the Cinematic version of the advantage. Cobbling together an unending stream of drones is great (with this and a Crossroads witch on the team, well, we're a party which believes that time spent on reconnaissance is never wasted), but I really must brew up a few proton packs some time.
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10-16-2020, 06:15 AM | #29 | ||
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Meifumado
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Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Gadgeteer
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As Gadgeteering is a perennial topic, I'll add these links for the readers' edification: Gadgeteer: List of Fictional Gadgeteers Gadgeteer: List of Real-life Historical Gadgeteers And my thoughts on what RAW Gadgeteering lacks and what a Power Ups book on inventing and gadgets could focus on: Quote:
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10-16-2020, 06:31 AM | #30 | |
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Gadgeteer
Quote:
-A laser pistol would be Average complexity, and a starship Amazing. That's flawed, certainly, but not in the way you suggest. -Putting a Limitation on the Advantage is fairly obvious and standard, though a lot of Gadgeteers can switch fields relatively easily. -I'm pretty sure that using the Invention rules to invent new spells is specifically recommended in RAW. Though probably not with any helpful details. Thaumatology does have a fairly detailed section on inventing new alchemical elixers.
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I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident. Last edited by Ulzgoroth; 10-16-2020 at 06:34 AM. |
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