[Basic] Advantage of the Week: Gadgeteer

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

What higher TL equipment would the staff be working with, and where did it come from? Setting up a production line for a finished invention just costs money, it doesn't require you to run through additional inventions to create the machining.

The actual invention you are manufacturing. Making it and fixing it is working with a higher technology.

[Micah Davis]

If the player doesn't buy at least Very Wealthy or a Patron with +100% equipment, they can't do much with ordinary gadgeteer. A player who wants to Uplift society needs at least Filthy Rich, which, like, if you're paying enough to do it why not? You can say no to that if that's not the sort of background you want for your PCs, but just take Gadgeteer off the table if so. It's not an adventuring advantage.

High TL + Gadgeteer would definitely require an Unusual Background for me, unless the campaign is on the cusp of that TL anyway. So, maybe one level in 2020, but no more. And unless we were using Wildcard skills, I'd require the lower TL skill as a pre-req - Just to prove that they're a "cutting edge" scholar on the topic.

Quick Gadgeteer, by contrast, almost requires a Vow "Protect My Inventions from those who would use them ill" or "Non-Interference Clause". It's just kooky levels of powerful - Unless you're playing in a world like Girl Genius where everyone has it.

[David Johnston2]

Oh and I forgot. You don't get the price break on manufacturing the gear if the gadgeteer isn't there to use his gadgeteer advantage.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Otaku

I mean, it is sound advice, but then I wondered about those who are better at refining existing technology rather than inventing wholly new technology.

That would probably be Versatile.
Gadgeteer is a cinematic advantage and I treat it like Trained by a Master.

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

The actual invention you are manufacturing. Making it and fixing it is working with a higher technology.

The inventor trains them, thus giving them skill in the higher TL, or a Craft Secret perk for that invention.



Another thought: What sort of limitations would need to be applied to Gadgeteer to represent 1980s Action Inventors like MacGyver or the A-Team? Sure, they also need Serendipity to make sure that the bad guys lock them in the tool shed or the garage, or otherwise make sure that they have things to improvise with, but they do seem to have some form of Gadgeteer. At minimum, I would say that they cannot invent anything of higher TLs (at least in the case of those two shows; the guy from Probe seems to be a more regular Gadgeteer or Quick Gadgeteer), but I'm not sure what that limitation would be worth, not whether it's the only one they'd need to have.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

The inventor trains them, thus giving them skill in the higher TL, or a Craft Secret perk for that invention.
.

The inventor doesn't have skill in the higher TL so he can't teach skill in the higher TL. He just has a superpower that lets him bend the limits of his TL that ordinary people don't have.

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

The inventor doesn't have skill in the higher TL so he can't teach skill in the higher TL.

I did mention the possibility of a Craft Secret perk. Inventors raise the TL all the time, and are able to get people to run the factories for them.

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

He just has a superpower that lets him bend the limits of his TL that ordinary people don't have.

That's either a pure setting switch (e.g. it fits Tinkers from the Worm/Ward setting, but not settings where Gadgeteers do raise the TL), thus entirely up to the GM/setting creator, or it's the kind of absolutist statement that requires either a direct quote from the book or a direct quote from Kromm to back up.

[Micah Davis]

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

The inventor trains them, thus giving them skill in the higher TL, or a Craft Secret perk for that invention.



Another thought: What sort of limitations would need to be applied to Gadgeteer to represent 1980s Action Inventors like MacGyver or the A-Team? Sure, they also need Serendipity to make sure that the bad guys lock them in the tool shed or the garage, or otherwise make sure that they have things to improvise with, but they do seem to have some form of Gadgeteer. At minimum, I would say that they cannot invent anything of higher TLs (at least in the case of those two shows; the guy from Probe seems to be a more regular Gadgeteer or Quick Gadgeteer), but I'm not sure what that limitation would be worth, not whether it's the only one they'd need to have.

Do they need gadgeteer at all? Can you do what needs doing with Scrounging, Engineer, and Serendipity? If not, I'd probably do Gizmo (No Gadgeteer Restrictions +50%) for 7.5 per Gizmo rather than Gadgeteer.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

I did mention the possibility of a Craft Secret perk. Inventors raise the TL all the time, and are able to get people to run the factories for them.

A GM could allow such a thing. But he doesn't have to. It isn't an inevitable element of a setting with gadgeteers.

That's either a pure setting switch (e.g. it fits Tinkers from the Worm/Ward setting, but not settings where Gadgeteers do raise the TL), thus entirely up to the GM/setting creator, or it's the kind of absolutist statement that requires either a direct quote from the book or a direct quote from Kromm to back up.

Gadgeteers don't really exist. All we have is inventors. What gadgeteers do is as impossible as humans with Flight or Lifting ST 100. It's possible to create a world where there are no TLs and hence no TL penalties and therefore the first gadgeteer catapults the world to TL 12 in a generation just as it's possible to create a world where everyone is ST 100. But the TL rules exist to prevent that kind of thing and the term "superpower" refers to humans with abilities that real life humans just don't have. Gadgeteer qualifies.

[Micah Davis]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

A GM could allow such a thing. But he doesn't have to. It isn't an inevitable element of a setting with gadgeteers.

It's an inevitable element of a setting where the TL has ever advanced at all - It's clear that TLs do advance, it's clear that many games will be run on the cusp of the advancement (1980s, 1940s), and it's clear that this happens on a regular basis. So there has to be some way for people of a lower TL to move their TL up - Whether that's Master/Expert level people teaching the next TL up from default or Craft Secret (no idea what that does) or what have you. People rise in TL all the time, it's the norm and not the exception. Sometimes, they rise from TL3 to TL8.

If the gadgeteer doesn't have High TL and he isn't allowed to buy it and he can't recruit people who have it or are competent enough to deal with the penalties, than what you're actually saying is, "I have a special set of rules that I apply when the tech level goes up due to a gadgeteer that are unlike the way it ordinarily works when new tech enters the world". Which is fine, but that's a GM call, not RAW, and it kind of hobbles Gadgeteer.