[Basic] Advantage of the Week (#30): Contact Group, Contacts

[Anders]

Originally Posted by ericthered

As written, contacts just don't feel like people. They feel like skills. I don't think I've ever bothered with fixing that though, at least formally. I think I've worked with the "Two of quick, inexpensive, and nonhazardous", though.

The reliability statistic has always bugged me. It feels like it belongs in a specific genre, not as a significant stat on every contact.

I think the advantage first appeared in Cyberpunk, where backstabbing is part of the genre. Altering the cost for a less backstabby environment would be appropriate.

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by Anders

I think the advantage first appeared in Cyberpunk, where backstabbing is part of the genre. Altering the cost for a less backstabby environment would be appropriate.

Ahah! this is why I follow these thread. For little nuggets like this. Thanks. This helps a lot.

[Daigoro]

Originally Posted by Anders

I think the advantage first appeared in Cyberpunk, where backstabbing is part of the genre. Altering the cost for a less backstabby environment would be appropriate.

ISTR it was an issue of Roleplayer, but the current write-up might owe more to the version in Cyberpunk.

Searching...

Here it is!
http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/Rolepla.../Contacts.html

Hmmm... seems Reliable was in it from the get-go. Effective Skill was later made more general.

ETA:... and much cheaper.
Actually, the Roleplayer and Cyberpunk versions are basically the same, which is expected as they were published within a year of each other.

ETA2: As the article says, it was written for Cliffhangers, which I guess could be as backstabby as Cyberpunk.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Daigoro

In one of my attempts to redo contacts, I figured that indeed the primary reason to take a Contact, instead of just taking the same skill personally on the PC's character sheet, was to get access to what's going on in their workplace.

Which is another reason I just give them a Bang skill.

A Completely Reliable Contact is so good at what they do, and persistent, that they can always get an answer- measuring skill and persistence.

That persistence is also a measure of Loyalty. They like the PC, are loyal, and so if they don't know they'll go out of their way to find the answer (or deliver the favor) in a few days.


And your comments on Patron and Ally are why I bumped the base cost to Usually Reliable.

I did toy once with a slight rewrite of the Reliability/Loyalty settings:

Completely Reliable: Even on a critical failure on his effective skill roll, the Contact’s worst response will be “check back in (1d) days.” On an ordinary failure, he will find information in 1d days. x3.

Usually Reliable: On a critical failure, the Contact cannot find the information. On any other failure, he doesn’t know now, “. . . but check back in (1d) days.” Roll again at that time; a failure then means he can’t find out at all. x2.

Reliable: On any failure, the Contact cannot find the information.

Somewhat Reliable: On a failure, the Contact doesn’t know and can’t find out. On a critical failure, he lies – and on a natural 18, he lets the opposition or authorities (as appropriate) know who is asking questions. x1/2.

Unreliable: Reduce effective skill by 2. On any failure, he lies; on a critical failure, he notifies the enemy. x1/4 (round up; minimum final cost is 1 point).



But I didn't exactly like it, so just went with the bump up.

[Kelly Pedersen]

To make Contacts/Contact Groups useful compared to just buying the skills yourself, I feel there's a critical consideration, and that's to remember that Contacts absolutely can provide more help than just a roll against the skill in question could. It's right there in the description: "useful information or... favors". It does specify "small" favours, but I feel that needs to be read in comparison to something like Allies or Patrons, who are usually willing to join you in life-threatening situations or provide significant political, social, or economic pull, respectively.

I think a good way to handle the sort of favours Contacts can grant is to use the Assistance Rolls rules from Social Engineering: Pulling Rank. Use the Frequency of Appearance on the Contact as the target number for the assistance roll. Don't bother with the modifiers under Personal Abilities (those are assumed to be subsumed into the general Frequency of Appearance already), but do apply the specific modifiers for any particular item. Additionally, apply some general modifiers based on the "Easy, Safe, Cheap" qualifiers: +5 if all three apply, +0 if only two do, -5 if only one applies, and -10 if none apply, or just disallow the roll entirely.

A contact can draw on the resources of a group they belong to, but if they can't do so legitimately, the favour will usually not count as "safe".

So, for example, say you have a Contact, a banker with Finance as the skill. The banker can simply roll against Finance for you, of course, if you need to set up a plan to get some cash to set up a business or something. They could also provide access to files or records from the bank they work at related to finance, provide pretty much any of the aid listed under Social Privilege as it pertains to the bank, or provide facilities relating to Finance (top-end computers with financial transaction software, for example). The banker could probably even provide you with cash or funding directly, drawing on the resources of the bank, though that would almost certainly fail the "safe" test, or the "easy" one.

Another general principle that I apply for Contacts is that they have access to the facilities necessary to use their skills. So a police Contact with Forensics can be assumed to have a forensics lab handy, a gunsmith with Armoury (Small Arms) has a gun-repair shop, and so forth. Generally, using those facilities should be within the range of favours they'll provide.

One thing I think Contacts/Contact Groups does need is an option to expand the geographical scope it covers. "One city" just doesn't cover a lot of the Contacts that appear in fiction. I'd suggest adding another multiplying factor, "Scope", which would be based on a similar progression to "Area Class", under "Geographical and Temporal Scope", p. B176. "Neighbourhood" would be 1/3rd cost, "Village or Town" would be 1/2, "City" would be X1, "Barony, County, or Small Nation" would be X2, "Large Nation" X3, "Planet" X4, "Interplanetary State" X5, and "Galaxy" X7. A Contact could provide answers or favours related to things in the area one larger than its default, but at -3 to effective skill.

So, for example, a homeless person who really only provided their Streetwise roll within the small neighbourhood they stay in would be 1/3rd normal price, but would be able to help with things in the village or town their neighbourhood was part of, at a penalty to their skill.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

One thing I think Contacts/Contact Groups does need is an option to expand the geographical scope it covers. "One city" just doesn't cover a lot of the Contacts that appear in fiction. I'd suggest adding another multiplying factor, "Scope", which would be based on a similar progression to "Area Class", under "Geographical and Temporal Scope", p. B176. "Neighbourhood" would be 1/3rd cost, "Village or Town" would be 1/2, "City" would be X1, "Barony, County, or Small Nation" would be X2, "Large Nation" X3, "Planet" X4, "Interplanetary State" X5, and "Galaxy" X7. A Contact could provide answers or favours related to things in the area one larger than its default, but at -3 to effective skill.

Yeah the scope is my main issue with Contacts and Contact group.
I have gone over Contacts extensively and changed some of my initial conclusions over time in doing so.
As pure skills there typically a bad deal but the favor and offloading of time intensive tasks makes them a reasonable value. Reliability appeared to be an issue but once you add in bribes and really look them over most Contacts are fine. Rarely, if ever would I buy Reliability up very high. I have a chart saved for a project I hope to publish someday.
The two issues I have are Scope and that the "I know a guy" archetype seem overly expensive to do.
Adding Cosmic, Accessibility (from Patron), or Kelly's idea above can address Scope. This is important as Contacts are pretty limited to city based adventures and not doable for a typical traveling adventure campaign. Unless your sitting in one place you need another option.
Getting a lot of different Contacts is doable with Modular Abilities, Wild Talent, and another power I'll have to hold off on.
The trick is using a Contact in MA or Wild talent is still a one shot so you may pay too much a premium to afford multiple Contacts in any but high powered campaigns.
Another thing that Contacts wont do is build a Network but again there is a simple and rather obvious way around that as well.

With the current rules and typical impression most have of Contacts i find few people bother with them, including myself so I had to figure out better options and presentation for certain character types.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Refplace

As pure skills there typically a bad deal but the favor and offloading of time intensive tasks makes them a reasonable value.

But are they a good value when compared to Allies?


That's where I've had the issue and why I broadened the skill to a Bang and bumped up Reliability. Otherwise, I had PCs with Allies that would have been better served as Contacts showing up, and no PCs taking Contacts.

[Daigoro]

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

One thing I think Contacts/Contact Groups does need is an option to expand the geographical scope it covers. "One city" just doesn't cover a lot of the Contacts that appear in fiction. I'd suggest adding another multiplying factor, "Scope", which would be based on a similar progression to "Area Class", under "Geographical and Temporal Scope", p. B176. "Neighbourhood" would be 1/3rd cost, "Village or Town" would be 1/2, "City" would be X1, "Barony, County, or Small Nation" would be X2, "Large Nation" X3, "Planet" X4, "Interplanetary State" X5, and "Galaxy" X7. A Contact could provide answers or favours related to things in the area one larger than its default, but at -3 to effective skill.

So, for example, a homeless person who really only provided their Streetwise roll within the small neighbourhood they stay in would be 1/3rd normal price, but would be able to help with things in the village or town their neighbourhood was part of, at a penalty to their skill.

For large scope Contacts, are you talking about them being a single individual with galactic-scale information (say), or a Claim to Hospitality-like group that you can get information from in different parts of the galaxy?

I think having a further option than a Contact only being available in one city is needed, but I don't think basing it on their geographic scale works. To broadly generalise, a GM will either base their campaign in one single limited locale, like a city: in which case the PC will potentially have access to the Contact any time; or it's a travelling, trading and exploring campaign, where a single locale Contact would be useless. Making the galaxy-travelling campaign PCs pay x7 more for galactic-scope Contacts doesn't actually get them any further utility. It just means that they're now available any time they need, which is the same utility as the city Contact in the city-based campaign.

Not sure how to fairly price the idea of Scope though. One way is just to fold it into the Availability, as a percentage of how often adventurers will be near their Contact network.

Or, I previously suggested a Specific/Generic enhancement for Contacts. A Specific Contact is a named individual and works as-is. A Generic Contact is a class of Contact that could be contacted in different locales- such as at the local guild office or Cardassian tailor's shop, priced as a +50% enhancement. Generic Contacts can also cover faceless contacts who can change from one instance to the next, such as Lord Varys' little birds or Batman going out on the street to shake down some thugs for a lead.

[Kelly Pedersen]

Originally Posted by Daigoro

For large scope Contacts, are you talking about them being a single individual with galactic-scale information (say), or a Claim to Hospitality-like group that you can get information from in different parts of the galaxy?

Either approach works, in my opinion. The banker Contact with Finance and galactic scope could be a single person who happens to work at the central branch of the First Imperial Star Bank, gets information from all across the stars, and who you can ring up with your handy hyper-phone when needed. Or it could be a matter of you making a point to cultivate a banker in every system. Each approach has its tradeoffs - a single person is easier to butter up and bribe, but conversely is easier to be taken out in a single hit, compared to the group.

Originally Posted by Daigoro

I think having a further option than a Contact only being available in one city is needed, but I don't think basing it on their geographic scale works. To broadly generalise, a GM will either base their campaign in one single limited locale, like a city: in which case the PC will potentially have access to the Contact any time; or it's a travelling, trading and exploring campaign, where a single locale Contact would be useless.

This problem also occurs with other social traits like Claim to Hospitality or Patrons however - there can always be circumstances that take you out of effective communication with the people who can help you. The GM should ensure that players are aware of what the circumstances of the campaign are going to be, and warn them if they take traits that aren't likely going to come up.

Also, I think there's a bit of an excluded middle in your range of possible campaigns. Lots of games will have reoccurring places that are nevertheless not the permanent setting. A game of "travelling, trading, and exploring", for example, could easily have a home port location that the group keeps coming back to for resupply, new missions, etc. where a Contact could be quite helpful, but not useful while out on an actual mission.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

Either approach works, in my opinion. The banker Contact with Finance and galactic scope could be a single person who happens to work at the central branch of the First Imperial Star Bank, gets information from all across the stars, and who you can ring up with your handy hyper-phone when needed. Or it could be a matter of you making a point to cultivate a banker in every system. Each approach has its tradeoffs - a single person is easier to butter up and bribe, but conversely is easier to be taken out in a single hit, compared to the group.

PK suggested Accessibility from Patron to handle much of the former and Contact Group handles the latter.