[Magic] Collegio Januari And Gold In Them Thar Spells

[Darekun]

Just picked up GURPS Infinite Worlds: Collegio Januari. I'm liking it so far, some neat ideas for "Infinity, repopulated" :J

I usually ignore templates, but I was curious what they did for spells, and I noticed this little gem:

Spells of Janus: Planar Summons (H) IQ+1 [4]-14† and Plane Shift (VH) IQ [4]-13† for the Collegio's home Earth and for four other worlds.
[…]
† +1 for Magery.

If I'm reading that right, it means they have ten spells at [4], and Magery 1. (They also have prereqs at [1].)

Is this an erratum?

Reducing each of those spells by 1 level would free up 20 points, enough to increase their Magery to 3, increasing all their spells by 2 levels for a net +1 for those.

Reducing each of those spells by 2 levels instead would free up 30 points. If Magery 4 is available, they could get it, increasing all their spells by 3 levels for a net +1 for those. If Magery 3 is the cap, they could get it, increasing all their spells by 2 levels; this wouldn't net any change for those primary spells, but their other spells would go up by 2, they'd meet more Magery prereqs, and they'd have 10 more points to play with.

Since those primary spells are all Gate, the same comments apply but more with Gate-college Magery.

Personally, I'd say the mistake was making spells skills in the first place - it only benefits the Johnny One Spell types that were a complaint in 3ed, and causes pitfalls like this. They should be Perks, or better yet, a single "Spell Knowledge" advantage at 1/level, so enhancements and limitations can be applied en masse to Magery and spells. But that ship has sailed.

If it was a goal to keep Magery low, an increase to IQ(with corresponding decrease to Will and Per) could be substituted, at least partly. One level would cause Per: 10 to hit the "GM approval required" floor, but those 10 extra points could be left in Per. If that's not a worry for this template, it could be entirely substituted.



(This is also my first thread started, and I'm not confident of my tagging. Should I have used a different set of tags? Should I not worry, as others can fix it?)

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Darekun

Just picked up GURPS Infinite Worlds: Collegio Januari. I'm liking it so far, some neat ideas for "Infinity, repopulated" :J

I usually ignore templates, but I was curious what they did for spells, and I noticed this little gem:



If I'm reading that right, it means they have ten spells at [4], and Magery 1. (They also have prereqs at [1].)

I don't think you are. My count is 6 spells. Which means, yes, they could save points by increasing their Magery to 2. But not every character has to be optimized. I think that's supposed to be a typical member of the order (once you add a few more spells) not a PC.

[mljluk]

Actually, I think the template only adds up (arithmetically) if it's 10 spells at 4.

Which is 'sub optimal' I guess from an optimisation standpoint, but if you view the template as the minimal magery template for graduation, then it isn't so bad. I can't see a PC member of the Collegio having magery any less than 3 (if allowed) regardless.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by mljluk

Actually, I think the template only adds up (arithmetically) if it's 10 spells at 4.

Yeah. Five versions each of Planar Summons and Plane Shift @ four points each.

Real people usually aren't point-optimized.

[lexington]

Very much sub-optimal but if it's supposed to be a member of the order then that doesn't apply. Real people don't even get to see their character sheets, let alone design them to have optimal stats.

[Anaraxes]

At the same skill level, more points plus lower stat implies someone with more training and experience, whereas fewer points and higher stat implies a prodigy or "natural". They're both valid concepts and builds. I could wish for more game-mechanical advantages to the former to make it less "suboptimal", and for more differences to showcase the difference between the concepts.

[sieurin]

I could wish for more game-mechanical advantages to the former to make it less "suboptimal", and for more differences to showcase the difference between the concepts.

Agreed, though I personally lack the "system savy" to come up with any good ideas.

Erik

[Darekun]

Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery

Real people usually aren't point-optimized.

Originally Posted by lexington

Real people don't even get to see their character sheets, let alone design them to have optimal stats.

Eh, the reason I've embraced Gold In Them Thar Skills rather than trying to mod the system to handle it well(and there are definitely systems that do) is that that optimization lines up with real-life cross-training. You really get football players putting points into enough DX skills that they can cash out a level of each to raise DX, programmers doing the same with IQ, etc.

(It also looks like real-world skills don't max out at 4/level, so eventually it becomes cheaper to raise the attribute this way than to raise any one skill.)

So real people(except insofar as magic is involved) putting that much study into spells would be construed as cross-training Magery(if it's trainable) and/or IQ.

Also, I suspect that the template was intended as a suggested start for PCs, in which case the pitfall should at least be mentioned. (Although I may be over-sensitive in that regard; I started RPGing with Shadowrun 2ed, and their prebuilt characters were so "abysmized" that in play, they were noticeably inferior to someone completely unfamiliar with the system designing a character.)

Originally Posted by sieurin

Agreed, though I personally lack the "system savy" to come up with any good ideas.

GURPS isn't a great starting point here; I remember someone(Irina Rempt, maybe?) from rec.games.frp.gurps using a system that handled it beautifully, based on White Wolf/Shadowrun. An attribute gives dice, each die that rolls under the skill is a success, number of successes is roughly equivalent to margin of success. I think difficulty modifiers subtracted successes.

So increasing an attribute improves the average and max but increases the absolute deviation, while increasing a skill improves the average and tightens up the absolute deviation but leaves the max alone. Someone with high attribute but low skill can achieve spectacular things, but not on command; someone with low attribute but high skill will reliably do well, but their few peaks won't be impressive.