Occultation, how to model it.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by vitruvian

What else is the enhancement for Invisibility for? Basic Invisibility already covers the whole EM spectrum, and would have to be limited not to cover, for example, infrared or even radar.

The way I like to read it is "any other type of vision the GM allows". Allowing it to work for (absolutely) any other sense at the cost of a mere +20% enhancement seems too cheap. That's just me, AIS.

[Langy]

How many points would you call 'undetectable by smell' or 'undetectable by sound'? Note that sonar is a canonically appropriate use of 'extended', and should probably apply to normal sound as well (for the same reason stock invisibility also includes radar).

[Fnordianslip]

If I remember correctly, Terrain Adaptation and a couple other advantages just use a +300% modifier to apply to all situations. I'd probably just do the same for Invisibility and call it a day.

Occultation [204 Points]
Invisibility with
Can Carry Objects (Heavy Enc), +100%
Cosmic (Works vs. all forms of detection), +300%
Switchable, +10%

[munin]

Originally Posted by Langy

... there's no other ability, even Obscure, that's a non-area-effect 'invisibility'-type power, since you can't make Obscure have no AoE...

RPK has suggested "No Area Effect, -50%" for Obscure. I'm not sure if it's made it into the RAW anywhere yet. I prefer -30% for naked, and -20% to cover only you and your gear.

Originally Posted by Langy

... Besides, 'Immune to the sense of Smell (Affects Machines, +50%) [60]' sounds like it's too much, not too little. Same with just about any other sense besides vision...How many points would you call 'undetectable by smell' or 'undetectable by sound'?

Obscure treats all senses as worth the same, but I think a method to consider for determining the fair value of Invisibility applied to other senses would be the ratio between disadvantages which remove senses: Blindness [-50], Deafness [-20], and No Sense of Smell/Taste [-5]. With Affects Machines and Extra-Heavy Encumbrance ([120] for Invisibility), that would make Inaudible [48] (comparable to Silence 10) and Unsmellable [12]. I'd be comfortable with those costs (perhaps rounded to nearest 5).

[gjc8]

Originally Posted by munin

Obscure treats all senses as worth the same, but I think a method to consider for determining the fair value of Invisibility applied to other senses would be the ratio between disadvantages which remove senses: Blindness [-50], Deafness [-20], and No Sense of Smell/Taste [-5]. With Affects Machines and Extra-Heavy Encumbrance ([120] for Invisibility), that would make Inaudible [48] (comparable to Silence 10) and Unsmellable [12]. I'd be comfortable with those costs (perhaps rounded to nearest 5).

I'm not sure that really works. No Sense of Smell/Taste is a small disadvantage because humans don't have a very useful sense of smell anyway. Being Unsmellable by humans is less of an advantage than being Unsmellable by dogs.

[munin]

But averaged over all genres, is Unsmellable really worth more than about 10 points? Is Inaudible really worth much more than Silence 10? I like the result.

[lexington]

I wonder if not being smellable is included in Sealed.

Originally Posted by munin

But averaged over all genres, is Unsmellable really worth more than about 10 points? Is Inaudible really worth much more than Silence 10? I like the result.

You're probably not going to take the advantage at all outside of setting where it has some real value.

[jeff_wilson]

Originally Posted by lexington

I wonder if not being smellable is included in Sealed.

Sealed keeps people from smelling what's inside the seal, but if your breath is not collected, it and the cologne would be on the outside. And the sealing substance itself might have some new car smell depending on how it is achieved.

[jeff_wilson]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

Occultation is like Invisibility except that it's more potent. The Invisible can't be seen, that which has been Occulted can't be noticed or sensed. I could smell an invisible person's cologne (or is they're a slob, their BO), but an occulted person could wear a gallon of scent, and still go undetected. The feet of an invisible person would still make noise, and occulted person could bang symbols and go undected.

So how to modle this in GURPS, both as a wizard's power and as a way to hide a wizard's stronghold. The hidden hotel in The Shadow is a good example of Occultation through Psi.

How do you want physical contact or collision to be handled? Does the Occulted subject's location appear to be empty air, or is there an illusion of prevailing material in it's place (i.e. instead of a mysterious clearing in the woods with bare, untracked earth and a lack of pollen or insects, does there appear to be just one more patch of woods like the rest) ?

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Is it meant to be the ability to influence other people's minds so they don't notice you (the classic Somebody Else's Problem effect), not good on mechanical sensors?

Control of information flow to both living beings and mechanical sensors?

Control of sense-data in a phenomenalist world where sense-data are independent entities?

"Objective" physical absence of detectable traits?

Probability-based ability to slip through the cracks in surveillance?

Movement through some other dimension that can see ours but not be seen by it?

Some inexplicable application of Cosmic omnipotence to forbid being noticed?

In a weird way, this seems almost like Immunity to Perception, which would have to cost a lot, and probably take some sort of Cosmic enhancement. Especially if you also didn't have mirror images, shadows, echoes, footsteps, and so on.

Bill Stoddard

Immunity to Perception sounds the most like what I'm after. Occultation is supposed to be much more powerful than Invisiblity.