GURPS CHALLENGE: 3e builds and 4e builds

[Celjabba]

An example of 4e cheapness.

3e athlete [412]
4e athlete [184]

Name: 3e athlete [412]
Race: Human

Attributes [0]
ST 10
DX 10
IQ 10
HT 10

HP 10
Will 10
Per 10
FP 10

Basic Lift 20
Damage 1d-2/1d

Basic Speed 5
Basic Move 5

Advantages [155]
Alcohol Tolerance [5]
Appearance (Very Beautiful) [25]
Tough Skin 2 [25]
Eidetic Memory (Photographic) [60]
Hard to Kill (5) [25]
Longevity [5]
Literacy [10]

Disadvantages [-3]
Oblivious [-3]


Skills [260]
Erotic Art (Human) P/H - DX+6 16 [48]
Sign Language - M/A 13 [8/4]
Language English - M/A 13 [8/4]
Glassblower P/H - DX+6 16 [48]
Skating P/H - DX+6 16 [48]
Skying P/H - DX+6 16 [48]
Harpoon P/H - DX+7 17 [56]
Shuriken P/H - DX+7 17 [56]

Stats [0] Ads [155] Disads [-3] Quirks [0] Skills [260] = Total [412]

Name: 4e athlete [184]
Race: Human

Attributes [0]
ST 10
DX 10
IQ 10
HT 10

HP 10
Will 10
Per 10
FP 10

Basic Lift 20
Damage 1d-2/1d

Basic Speed 5
Basic Move 5

Social Background
TL: 3 [0]
Cultural Familiarities:
Languages: ASL (Native) [0]; English (None/Native) [0].

Advantages [44]
Appearance (Very Beautiful) [16]
Damage Resistance (2) (Tough Skin) [6]
Eidetic Memory (Photographic) [10]
Hard to Kill (5) [10]
Longevity [2]

Perks [1]
Alcohol Tolerance [1]

Disadvantages [-5]
Oblivious [-5]


Skills [144]
Erotic Art (Human) DX/A - DX+6 16 [24]
Professional Skill (Glassblower) DX/A - DX+6 16 [24]
Sports (Skating) DX/A - DX+6 16 [24]
Sports (Skying) DX/A - DX+6 16 [24]
Thrown Weapon (Harpoon) DX/E - DX+7 17 [24]
Thrown Weapon (Shuriken) DX/E - DX+7 17 [24]

Stats [0] Ads [45] Disads [-5] Quirks [0] Skills [144] = Total [184]

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by hal

Not that I expect anyone will take this seriously, but one never knows...[]

I can't.

In theory? A 400 point character for a game system based on 150 points, is worth 267 points in 3e with its 100 point base character cost.

You're trying for too many significant figures there. As is being demonstrated, it's possible to construct characters who are much cheaper under 4e than 3e.

Just as not all 100-point 3e characters are equal, not all 150-point 4e characters are equal. 4e characters usually cost more than 3e ones for similar capabilities, somewhere in the range from a little more up to double. +50% is simply a mid-point in that range.

Also, your original argument, below, is ill-founded:

Originally Posted by hal

GURPS got into a phase where advantages started to be priced higher and higher. The only way to bring those into game play was to increase point budgets - which in turn, brought into sharper focus, the issue with character creation, and ultimately, a side issue that the original poster of this thread notes...

The reason for those more expensive advantages was scope growth. As GURPS was expanded from a game that handled human capabilities to one that also included superhuman abilities, it was seen as necessary for them to be priced higher, and for the characters that used them to be generated with more points to accommodate this. You may feel that was a wrong decision, and you're free to reprice everything for your own games.

The 100-point 3e character was never a sacred part of the rules; 3e games used all sorts of point budgets.

[hal]

Originally Posted by johndallman

Also, your original argument, below, is ill-founded:

The reason for those more expensive advantages was scope growth. As GURPS was expanded from a game that handled human capabilities to one that also included superhuman abilities, it was seen as necessary for them to be priced higher, and for the characters that used them to be generated with more points to accommodate this. You may feel that was a wrong decision, and you're free to reprice everything for your own games.

The 100-point 3e character was never a sacred part of the rules; 3e games used all sorts of point budgets.

Ok, let's lay a few more cards down - since it appears that the purpose of the challenge is causing more than a few individuals to be resistant to the whole goal of this thread...

1) Phase I was intended to get people to build character concepts, whether in 3e first and converting it to 4e, or from 4e first, converted into 3e. It was largely intended to get people to look at it as a fun exercise and see where it goes. Any conclusions made during the process would be initial ones.

2) Phase II was intended to standardize things. I could have simply standardized it from the start, but I chose not to only to allow for some creativity. I generally do not play Supers based games - and by Generally, that means in 30 years, NEVER has I once GM'd such a game, and only ONCE played in a game called CHAMPIONS. So, that is one particular weak point in my own experience. However, some of you just MIGHT be able to build a few supers and include it in phase 1 where there was no real point budget listed.

3) Phase III would have been an exploration of analysis tools needed. Then it would have been one in which, using the tools discussed, analyze just what the changes in the rules for either set of rules, did to the design and play of characters once the game started.

The "Challenge" here is to not only go through step 1 and 2, but actively work with others to go through phase III and see what comes of it.

So, whether you like the process, or the opinion of others or not - isn't really the point of this challenge. It is a challenge to learn something, or join with others to participate in a discussion that may leave you with more than when you started. Who knows, maybe I'll learn a thing or ten. It would be fun from my perspective to learn how others might think about what I've been looking at from time to time as someone who engages in house rule building. ;)

Who knows, maybe my opinions might change after exposure to those who participate. That's why I plan on submitting two characters to this thread before too much longer.

On that note...

Catch you all later. Gonna be busy for the next few days and largely out of contact.

[hal]

And while I'm thinking about it?

To those who do post characters to this thread, either during Phase I or Phase II...


THANK YOU.

:)