[DF] What DF titles would you like to see?

[Kalzazz]

You could always give 3-18 style stats for things. GURPS, DnD, Earthdawn, Rifts, and derivatives thereof etc all pretty much assume 3-18 stats for 'normal human type thingies'

So if you say a Bongo Ogre has Strength 30, then everyone would know 'Ah! Bongo Ogres are a fair bit stronger than a brawny human'

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by tbrock1031

Palladium has an interesting way to handle adventures. In addition to the occasional full-blown adventure, they had what they called "Hook, Line, and Sinker Adventures", which were basically bare-bones adventure seeds, with the Sinker usually being a twist. For example:

Pyramid's Adventure Pizza used to offer something akin to this.

[PK]

Originally Posted by Dammann

That's actually a supplement I'd also really like to see. Somehow, Thieves have been sort of ripped off up to now. Thieves and Barbarians need this treatment most.

Just to make sure, you know that barbarians received this treatment, right? (I realize that you likely meant this as, "Barbarians needed this treatment most, and finally got it, so now thieves are the only ones out in the cold," but I want to make sure GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Denizens: Barbarians didn't slip by anyone!)

Originally Posted by panton41

I'll second a DF book about using Low Tech. I know DF using Basic Set armor is partly an homage to how That Other Game has such unrealistic rules on armor, but GURPS isn't that game and some people like the idea of using realistic armor in such an over-the-top game.

I've heard a few people call for this, but I don't understand what such a book would entail. The existing DF line* basically just points the user back to the Basic Set for shopping and then adds new CF-based modifiers. So if you want to use Low-Tech, what is needed other than simply deciding to switch shopping lists?

* Except for the arms and armor tables in DF8 -- so would such a book simply provide new tables? That seems more like a Pyramid article than anything.

Please realize that I ask this in earnest; it is not intended as dismissive or ironic. I genuinely feel like I'm missing or overlooking something here and hope that someone can explain what they're looking for when they ask for "a DF book about using Low-Tech."

[Ternas]

Originally Posted by PK

I've heard a few people call for this, but I don't understand what such a book would entail. The existing DF line* basically just points the user back to the Basic Set for shopping and then adds new CF-based modifiers. So if you want to use Low-Tech, what is needed other than simply deciding to switch shopping lists?

* Except for the arms and armor tables in DF8 -- so would such a book simply provide new tables? That seems more like a Pyramid article than anything.

Please realize that I ask this in earnest; it is not intended as dismissive or ironic. I genuinely feel like I'm missing or overlooking something here and hope that someone can explain what they're looking for when they ask for "a DF book about using Low-Tech."

Honestly speaking, I'm not sure what they're talking about too much either. When it comes to DF then you're mostly using either weapons or armor. Considering that with the usage of some of Partial Armor in DF 13 for barbarians, it shouldn't be too hard to convert armor from LT for DF.

Most of the armor/weapon modifiers are compatable. Dwarven can be considered an Ethnic Cool version of Heavy Plate and whatnot. The only one that doesn't seem to easily fit is DF's Fine for armor which may need a bit of revision/expansion.

The biggest problem was just getting everyone to actually convert their armor over to LT since there's no direct translation, but if you just start out with using LT, then it's simple enough. There's been no complaints since then and even using the Loadouts for LT armor helps make things vastly more simple.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by PK

I've heard a few people call for this, but I don't understand what such a book would entail. The existing DF line* basically just points the user back to the Basic Set for shopping and then adds new CF-based modifiers. So if you want to use Low-Tech, what is needed other than simply deciding to switch shopping lists?

* Except for the arms and armor tables in DF8 -- so would such a book simply provide new tables? That seems more like a Pyramid article than anything.

A Pyramid maybe dedicated to DF Tech could have an article that covers this?

[Kalzazz]

The entire Loadouts book for the most part simply doesn't work if you want to use Low Tech

The Dwarven Modifier doesn't work very well either

As a note, our house rule for Dwarven is 'cost is the same, but each level adds +1 DR at half the normal heavy armor upgrade weight, and can exceed max levels'

For instance, for normal plate, each +1 DR clocks in at 4lbs. Each level of Dwarven clocks in at 2lbs. And plate can normally get up to DR 14 for torso, Dwarven plate can hit DR 17

[Dammann]

Originally Posted by PK

Just to make sure, you know that barbarians received this treatment, right? (I realize that you likely meant this as, "Barbarians needed this treatment most, and finally got it, so now thieves are the only ones out in the cold," but I want to make sure GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Denizens: Barbarians didn't slip by anyone!)

Yeah, I just couldn't think of a less awkward phrasing. Your paraphrase is exactly what I had in mind.

Barbarians and Thieves were, in my mind, the two classes from DF1 that were the least polished. Denizens 1 was a good answer for a lot of Barbarian issues, although I'd rather see Outdoorsman drop a skill somewhere to become a 5 point Talent than get repriced at [8]. Is Fishing an important part of the genre? Then again, that may be a bit of a crock, since "Survival" is not just one skill.

[chandley]

Originally Posted by Kalzazz

The entire Loadouts book for the most part simply doesn't work if you want to use Low Tech

The Dwarven Modifier doesn't work very well either

As a note, our house rule for Dwarven is 'cost is the same, but each level adds +1 DR at half the normal heavy armor upgrade weight, and can exceed max levels'

For instance, for normal plate, each +1 DR clocks in at 4lbs. Each level of Dwarven clocks in at 2lbs. And plate can normally get up to DR 14 for torso, Dwarven plate can hit DR 17

Conversely, I usually set Dwarven 1 as Hardened, and Dwarven 2 as Duplex, and use the Low-tech costs, and weights and rules (Hardened can be applied to any metal armor, not just plate). Dwarven 3 would be TL 5 Steel (2x DR for same weight, cost is technically +3 CF, but Id peg it as +23CF), if I decide to allow it at all.

A complete redo of Loadouts seems excessive really. Low-Tech Instant Armor isnt THAT hard to use is it?

[Kalzazz]

Low Tech Instant Armor is I admit one of the books I use least ever, its a lot less convenient than simply using the percentages (which are quickly and easily memorized) and the base values from Low Tech . . . . having the stuff scattered out over a slew of pages to try and piece together makes it worse

But Loadouts however would I think be handy for Inspiration and quick 'grab and go' goon outfitting for monsters and things . . . . except its almost all using stats I don't use with weights and prices I don't use. So its utility is well, not. The armor in treasure tables is a pain to convert, but well, when your rolling stuff in treasure tables you are already feeling the pain.

So, 'you can just use Instant armor' really defeats the purpose of Loadouts, which is 'here are some preplanned, pre packaged ideas to fit your character to a budget', you try to use Low Tech and it all falls apart to me

I allow Hardened or Duplex on top of Dwarven, for people who want really awesome (and really expensive) armor

A feature from the DnD 3.0 DMG I found hugely useful was representative, fully and completely statted and geared PC class characters of various levels completely ready to just drop into game as foes and friends etc . . . . Earthdawn 3e had this as well. I would find these exceptionally useful (though not necessarily just for DF, I dont actually run much strict DF), but being able to throw the party right into a fight with 10 stock characters would be awesome. I know it would be awesome, I've seen it with DnD 3.0 and it is awesome.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Kalzazz

I know it would be awesome, I've seen it with DnD 3.0 and it is awesome.

Your 'awesome' and my 'awesome' are two entirely separate things.

I have no use for stock characters. However having said that, if they showed up as a single article in a Pyramid (or even several spread out across different issues), I wouldn't be put off by it.

But a supplement with just that (or even more characters, say 1 "Iconic" for each Template*)? Nope. I would not buy.


* 23 for the 250CP Templates; 54 if you include the Henchmen and Lenses; and 59 for the Hirelings.

Now all that said, I would actually like a Pyramid article on Loadouts for 62CP Hirelings... say 2-3 packages for each...