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Old 04-19-2012, 01:55 PM   #21
Bruno
 
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Default Re: Channeling Innate Attacks (PU4)

Incidentally, Cosmic DR might be able to help against Follow-Up.
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Old 04-19-2012, 02:11 PM   #22
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Default Re: Channeling Innate Attacks (PU4)

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Originally Posted by user-unknown View Post
Given the requirements of Follow-Up, it looks like having the option of a ranged attack as well (which is not linked to weapons) would have to be an entirely separate Innate Attack, as an alternate ability.

So, final advantage would be something like:

Flame Strike: Burning Attack 2d (Follow-Up, Universal + 50%; Accessibility: not with ranged attacks -10%; Accessibility: only when not using other channeled powers - 10%, Selectivity +10%) [14]
Actually, I think that this build allows ranged burning attack. If you write down Follow-Up, Universal + 50%; Accessibility: not with ranged attacks -10% as Follow-Up, any melee attack, +40% (which I'd do), and use Selectivity to turn Follow-Up off, you end up with Burning Attack 2d (Accessibility: only when not using other channeled powers - 10%) which is ordinary ranged burning IA (well, you can't "dual wield" it with another channeled attack, not very important on melee-oriented character). I'd add another -5% Nuissance Effect: Not Ranged Capable (or "Selectivity is only to allow not using Follow-Up while using weapon, but doesn't allow to use IA without melee attack," but it looks awful on character sheet) if the attack is not supposed to be ranged (it doesn't change the cost on 2d, but I think it's worth noting).
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Old 04-19-2012, 02:28 PM   #23
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Default Re: Channeling Innate Attacks (PU4)

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Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
IT:DR reduces injury. This is a very important technical difference from regular DR, which reduces damage.

Follow-up bypasses DR, but still goes through the normal rules to convert from damage to injury - a Follow-up cutting attack against the torso has its damage multiplied by 1.5 to produce Injury, a follow-up cutting attack against the neck has its damage multiplied by 2 to produce injury. Innate Attacks only apply damage. IT:DR only works on injury.

Which is incidentally why you can't somehow layer IT:DR "over" DR any more than you can layer "IT: No Brain" over DR.

So no, Follow-up doesn't bypass any of the Injury Tolerances.
Ah, yes that makes sense. It would still be legal to have e.g. DR 4, with IT:DR 2 though, wouldn't it? If you then get hit with an attack that does 10 cutting to the neck, the damage would drop to 6 due to DR, be doubled for 12, and then IT:DR would drop it back down to 6 HP actually lost?

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Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
Incidentally, Cosmic DR might be able to help against Follow-Up.
It does seem like there should be an enhancement for DR along these lines. If my DR comes from a forcefield or thick skin, etc. it makes sense that the Follow-Up damage isn't affected by it, but it feels like if I am resistant to damage of a certain type because of my nature (e.g. fire elementals) the fact that the carrier attack (which may not have been subject to my DR due to 'Limited') has managed to do damage to me shouldn't really stop me resisting the attack of the type I am resistant to.

To be honest, I don't expect any of my players to actually have any abilities which can grant them this 'style' of DR, so if I think it's appropriate for a monster to work this way I can just mark it on the creature's notes and say that the Follow-Up either is or isn't subject to DR as needed.

Last edited by user-unknown; 04-19-2012 at 02:44 PM.
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Old 04-19-2012, 02:39 PM   #24
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Default Re: Channeling Innate Attacks (PU4)

how about doing this:

Flame Strike: Burning attack 2d (Follow-Up, Universal + 50%; Magical; Selectivity) 15pts

Frost Strike: Fatigue attack 1d (Follow-Up, Universal + 50%; Magical; Freezing Hazard; Selectivity) 17pts

Gale Strike: Cutting Attack 1d (Follow-Up, Universal + 50%; Magical; Low Signature; Selectivity) 12pts

Lighting Strike: Burning attack 1d+1 (Follow-Up, Universal + 50%; Magical; Surge; +1 per die; Selectivity) 12pts


Total : 56pts


and then have them be AA: 26pts :)
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Old 04-19-2012, 03:03 PM   #25
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Default Re: Channeling Innate Attacks (PU4)

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Originally Posted by Gnomasz View Post
Actually, I think that this build allows ranged burning attack. If you write down Follow-Up, Universal + 50%; Accessibility: not with ranged attacks -10% as Follow-Up, any melee attack, +40% (which I'd do), and use Selectivity to turn Follow-Up off, you end up with Burning Attack 2d (Accessibility: only when not using other channeled powers - 10%) which is ordinary ranged burning IA (well, you can't "dual wield" it with another channeled attack, not very important on melee-oriented character). I'd add another -5% Nuissance Effect: Not Ranged Capable (or "Selectivity is only to allow not using Follow-Up while using weapon, but doesn't allow to use IA without melee attack," but it looks awful on character sheet) if the attack is not supposed to be ranged (it doesn't change the cost on 2d, but I think it's worth noting).
Cunning :)


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Originally Posted by zoncxs View Post
how about doing this:

Flame Strike: Burning attack 2d (Follow-Up, Universal + 50%; Magical; Selectivity) 15pts

Frost Strike: Fatigue attack 1d (Follow-Up, Universal + 50%; Magical; Freezing Hazard; Selectivity) 17pts

Gale Strike: Cutting Attack 1d (Follow-Up, Universal + 50%; Magical; Low Signature; Selectivity) 12pts

Lighting Strike: Burning attack 1d+1 (Follow-Up, Universal + 50%; Magical; Surge; +1 per die; Selectivity) 12pts

Total : 56pts

and then have them be AA: 26pts :)
Yeah, those are the sort of attacks I am thinking of :) However, I'm not sure if I would let a player take those as alternate attacks of each other - I tend to think of alternate attacks as being all from the same source, rather than having similar effects. For example, I would be fine with having a set of fire attacks for melee, ranged, cone and fireball as alternate attacks, but I probably wouldn't allow fire, cold and electricity melee attacks to be alternates of each other.

That might be me being over strict though - another player in a game I play in at the moment (different system) currently has superstrength, a ranged lightning attack, burrowing, an AoE stun effect, and regeneration as alternate abilities of each other, as well as another set including enhanced senses, telekinesis and a telepathy power as alternates... not quite sure how he got away with that :/ I'm trying to avoid that sort of thing and it's possible I've overreacted :)

Last edited by user-unknown; 04-19-2012 at 03:11 PM.
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Old 04-19-2012, 06:50 PM   #26
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Default Re: Channeling Innate Attacks (PU4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by user-unknown View Post
Ah, yes that makes sense. It would still be legal to have e.g. DR 4, with IT:DR 2 though, wouldn't it? If you then get hit with an attack that does 10 cutting to the neck, the damage would drop to 6 due to DR, be doubled for 12, and then IT:DR would drop it back down to 6 HP actually lost?
Exactly!



Quote:
Originally Posted by user-unknown View Post
To be honest, I don't expect any of my players to actually have any abilities which can grant them this 'style' of DR, so if I think it's appropriate for a monster to work this way I can just mark it on the creature's notes and say that the Follow-Up either is or isn't subject to DR as needed.
This is one of the handy things about being a GM :D my general inclination would be to just call it the same price as the usual +50% for avoiding Cosmic attacks, and wave my hands around a bit.
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