First virtual DFRPG session using MapTool

[Dalin]

I just ran my first DFRPG game using MapTool and Discord. (My former players in California have been urging me to learn how to run games remotely.) It was a basic dungeon crawl with some lizardmen, skeletons, and a few traps intended to let us test out the software and consider whether it's worth doing more with it. I didn't mess with dynamic light, vision, or VBL. I just erased the fog of war as they proceeded.

I did minimal prep, but it still took quite a while to input basic stats for the PCs and foes. Still learning my way through the interface and figuring out what a good workflow is.

We encountered a few bugs and bumps along the way, but nothing we couldn't overcome. We used the GURPS framework credited to Wrathchild and Winter. (I haven't seen any frameworks specifically designed for DFRPG yet.) Some aspects of it were awesome, particularly the initiative tracker and the way it could automatically tell you who you could attack based on the reach of your weapon. We liked the automatic die rolling, skill rolls, etc. Some things were a bit wonky. The Move-and-Attack maneuver didn't actually cap skill at 9, so it would often say that it succeeded when it shouldn't have (it seemed like it was just applying -4 to skill). I was surprised, too, that the maneuver list didn't include Deceptive Attack or Rapid Strike (two popular options).

Players had a good time, though it was clear that things will improve as we get up to speed with the interface and all the options provided by the GURPS framework. They loved the way I could move things from the hidden layer to reveal pits, rockfalls, and secret doors. The fog of war was fun. Melee combat was more of a slog than I expected. (It seemed like some of the macro tools would help speed things up, but that was offset by people being unfamiliar with everything.) As GM, I also had trouble providing as much description and ambiance as I usually do. I was so focused on keeping track of all the windows and graphical details that I didn't have many brain cycles left for setting the mood. I assume this will get easier with familiarity.

I'm curious if any of you have used MapTool or another VTT to run or play DFRPG. What was the learning curve like for the players and GM?

[Tom H.]

Thanks for describing your experience Dalin.

I haven't got around to investigating any Virtual Table Tops.

How did you choose to go with MapTool over other options?

I'm also waiting for the day of a more immersive, computer-aided, face-to-face experience. Think of a flat, digital play-surface; physical minis; and AI linked to cameras to provide rule constraints.

Let us know how you adjust to using this aid.

[Tom H.]

P.S. And don't forget linking the AI to laser pointers too.

[Michael Thayne]

I've played around with Roll20 a bit. The one problem I ran into is a lack of good ways to handle close combat. GURPS' close combat rules are clunky though and I'm not sure what a good way to handle them would be.

[Mark Skarr]

Originally Posted by Dalin

I'm curious if any of you have used MapTool or another VTT to run or play DFRPG. What was the learning curve like for the players and GM?

I use Tabletop Simulator and Discord for our weekly GURPS games. I don't use any automation, but am just now starting to experiment with their Fog of War features. I print the characters sheets to PDF, then use photoshop to turn them into jpegs and load them into TTS so my players can see them in the 3d playspace.

I don't see the appeal of 2d VTTs as I'm used to playing with miniatures and TTS gives me a much better experience. I'm also utterly disinterested in having the computer interpret dice rolls or the rules.

It took us two or three sessions to really get the interface down, and now it's very easy. All the skills I learned with 3d Printing and 3d Rendering have paid off for creating and modifying models to load into TTS. We've played our Infinite Weirdos (both seasons) game, the Ark: Comedy Devolved, Teen Supers, Hand of Bobb's Zombie game (it never got a name), and now we're doing Operation: Flaming Parade Balloon in it. It allows my players, spread across the continental US to play together.

While you can play with a VR rig, I strongly recommend you don't try to GM a game through VR. It's very difficult as most of your commands aren't easily accessible through the VR interface. Also, you'd lose any additional monitors. (I have two monitors and have the game environment on one, and everything else on the other.)

[Dalin]

Originally Posted by Tom H.

How did you choose to go with MapTool over other options?

I considered MapTool, Roll20, Fantasy Grounds, and Virtual Tabletop (I know people who are ardent fans of each one). I didn't want to spend money without being able to fully test out the software, including running a demo game for my players. As far as I could tell, MT was the only one where this was easy to do. I also tend to like open source and use it when I can. A couple of my players are software developers and were curious about diving into the macro system to build custom automation.

I tested out Fantasy Grounds for a bit, but was surprised that it didn't include the ability to create quick maps on the fly. I tend to modify adventures a lot as I'm running them, so I wanted a tool where I could make easy adjustments on the fly, including adding a new encounter area without already having an image created. FG seemed to want everything to be media created outside of the software. Even in MapTool this isn't as easy as I'd like (drawing a map on a battlemat!), but I could definitely slap down some dungeon tiles and add a hex grid during a live game.

I'm not locked into MT yet, so always interested in hearing about other people's experiences.

[Dalin]

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne

I've played around with Roll20 a bit. The one problem I ran into is a lack of good ways to handle close combat. GURPS' close combat rules are clunky though and I'm not sure what a good way to handle them would be.

Roll20 is the one I gave the least attention to. I don't remember why anymore. I know a lot of friends who play D&D regularly with it and love it. I think I couldn't get a sense of how well it handled GURPS. I'm curious what you like about it.

I'm also curious about how it handles close combat. In MapTool, you can move tokens on top of each other, and it understands that some attacks have a range of zero (requiring you to share the hex with your target) and, conversely, that other attacks are unavailable at range zero. In this sense, it was better than tabletop where it's always a pain in the butt to have more than one mini trying to share a spot. On the downside, it can be hard to select the right token when they're overlapping, so we sometimes have to fiddle with it to move one of them out of the hex.

[Dalin]

Originally Posted by Mark Skarr

I use Tabletop Simulator and Discord for our weekly GURPS games. I don't use any automation, but am just now starting to experiment with their Fog of War features. I print the characters sheets to PDF, then use photoshop to turn them into jpegs and load them into TTS so my players can see them in the 3d playspace.

We were very interested in Tabletop Simulator and I almost bought a copy to try it out. It's frustrating that there's no way to get a demo of the software (at least I couldn't find an obvious way on their website). The trailer video was fun, but didn't give me a sense of the interface or what it's like to play an RPG. (For example, the clip of the animated minis was amazing, but is that actually feasible for regular play? Do they sell those minis?)

[Mark Skarr]

Originally Posted by Dalin

We were very interested in Tabletop Simulator and I almost bought a copy to try it out. It's frustrating that there's no way to get a demo of the software (at least I couldn't find an obvious way on their website). The trailer video was fun, but didn't give me a sense of the interface or what it's like to play an RPG. (For example, the clip of the animated minis was amazing, but is that actually feasible for regular play? Do they sell those minis?)

You are correct that there is no demo available for the game, which is unfortunate, but understandable.

I only use the animated minis if I don't have anything else. They're a neat gimmick, but not terribly interesting. They're free, with the game. There is a wonderful, free collection of D&D 5E minis for TTS. A little bit of time, dedicated to searching the workshop can turn up amazing things.

The interface is, very much, floating eye with a HUD. WASD keys move you around the virtual table. The mouse controls a virtual hand. Right-clicking the mouse allows for free-look. Left-click-and-hold lets you pick things up and move them around. Follow the shadow to see where they're going to be placed down. It's a virtual space with physics engine. And, really, that's all it is. There are a few things that help you play games of any type.

There is a grid function for squares and both orientations of hexes. You can choose to have no snap to grid, snap to center, or lines, or both. You can change the relative size of the grid in one or both axis. You can also change the color of the grid, the thickness of the lines, and whether or not it is visible (why you wouldn't have it be visible, if you're using it, is beyond me).

You can box-drag-and-hold to select dice (or, anything), shake the mouse, then release to roll dice, or just select your dice and press the 'R' key a few times to roll them as well (I prefer the latter). In the table I use, there are also dice towers that a couple of my players like to use. Once rolled, if you leave the dice selected, you can highlight any of them, and it will show you all the dice you rolled's value, and the total.

[eta]
In the dice example picture, above, I had named the dice "Damage Dice!". You don't have to name them anything, or you could have a set named "to-hit" and when you highlighted them, it would show the total as A+B+C = D to-hit. However you want to do it.
[/eta]

You can use the drawing tools (freehand and vector) to draw on the table, or you can load jpegs or pngs onto custom tiles and scale them to whatever size you want. There is, also included in the game, a set of free, if limited, dungeon terrain. Additionally, with some practice, you can load the generic shapes they have and scale them, on the fly, to make walls, doors, and other things.

For GURPS close-combat, much like the real-world, it doesn't like trying to put things in the same hex, if they have a significant collider. However, many of those D&D models above have a rudimentary base collider, so you can stack them in the virtual world. It's much easier to to give an OBJ-based model a rudimentary collider than it is to give one to a Unity Assetbundle. However, OBJ-based models are limited to about 35k polys, where Assetbundels are not. (Assetbundle on the left, OBJ-based on the right. I'm still working on textures.) I can stack the assetbundle on the top of the stack, but I can't have it on the bottom, or anywhere else in the stack as it has a 3d collider based on the model's shape.

Shapes with "complex" colliders only have those colliders when they're locked in place. If I were to unlock one of the dice towers I was talking about, above, it wouldn't work. The dice would just rest on the opening.

This is a screenshot, without my players, of my table for Operation Flaming Parade Balloon.

The light grey boxes in the area closest to the camera are masked areas that the players can't see into--that's the GM's staging area for this table (it's a slightly modified version of this table). If you look around the table, you'll see colored "mats." Those represent "hidden" areas that the players can place things in, and indicates where they're "sitting." The GM can see in their hidden area, but other players cannot.

FYI, the Table Flip button can be disabled. It's another silly gimmick that they put in there.

[Dalin]

Thank you, Mark, for that detailed review (and all the screenshots). I have a much better idea of how it works now. I've sent a link to this thread to the other key players who playtested MT with me. My brother and I may want to get TS anyway even if we don't use it for RPGs. We love some board games and card games too!