Why isn't GURPS as popular as the D20 system and games

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

As I said, not a universal attitude. :) Some of us handle pacing differently.

Now I do find Mage: The Ascension, edition 2, frustrating to use at times. Its index is not up to SJ Games standarPds, and it's not very logically organized. But i rarely have trouble finding things in GURPS books.

[ak_aramis]

Originally Posted by Anthony

You can find something irritating without getting bent out of shape. It's like squeaky door, it won't prevent you from using the door, but it's an annoyance.

Yup.

As for whswhs comment about time...

session time is in fact a limited resource. Often, far too limited.

My current groups, both have hard limits on game time. We want to make story progress, and have lots of choices that matter storywise.

Further, most of my players, and myself, have limited attention spans. 5m for a lookup means another 5 to get them back on task.

[Stormcrow]

Who said anything about five minutes for a lookup? Looking up a skill default takes about five seconds. Ten if you have to go digging for the table. And once you've looked it up, you're pretty much going to remember it for the rest of that session.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

Who said anything about five minutes for a lookup? Looking up a skill default takes about five seconds. Ten if you have to go digging for the table. And once you've looked it up, you're pretty much going to remember it for the rest of that session.

Yes, what he said. A lot of lookups in GURPS are quite quick. If I'm running a combat, for example, I just turn to the back of Campaigns and scan down the modifiers quickly—and after the first time, I know most of the situational ones.

There are also simple but useful tricks, such as, if your character is going to roll frequently against their default value for a spell, put it on their character sheet, with the best default value and a cost of 0.

As for time spent, the issue for my players is that everyone gets camera time. If I don't give someone a scene or two to star in, they'll complain, and with justice. But other than that, the point of the game is to roleplay. There isn't any kind of deadline of "solve this problem in 45 minutes or you've wasted your ttime."

[Lord Azagthoth]

You cold always let one of the players who has nothing to do at that monet to look up the rule so the GM can continue with the narrative.

Sometimes it is important to know all the rules by head, but most often, it is more important on how to find a rule quickly. Know how the books are written, indexed, etc. A good index at the end is very important for large rules books.

I played an fantasy RPG once with a rulebook without index. Each time when something had to be looked-up, it took a long time. The contents didn't mention all the subchapters, so it was often guessing in which chapter/paragraph the item was described, and often going forth and nack through the book before it was found. GURPS 4th at least has an index, or use the pdf version to look something up.

[L.J.Steele]

The look-up issue is a matter of preference and taste -- some people don't mind the interrupt, some people do. How much time it takes (and is perceived to take) varies both by how fast you can find the thing you need and how much someone wants to argue about wording.

GURPS tends to be the 2nd or 3rd best system for many genres -- a system that's custom designed for something will tend to do it better than one striving for universality. The trade off is not having to learn a new rules set for GURPS, tho in practice you have at least learn a new subset of the rules.

It doesn't have momentum at this point -- in the heyday of 3rd Ed, there was a new book on the shelves seemingly monthly. Even if I didn't want to play GURPS: Flavor of the Month, it reminded me that GURPS was out there, and did cool stuff. I know its a circular problem, but new books, new kickstarters, would generate buzz and interest in the existing library.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Lord Azagthoth

I played an fantasy RPG once with a rulebook without index. Each time when something had to be looked-up, it took a long time. The contents didn't mention all the subchapters, so it was often guessing in which chapter/paragraph the item was described, and often going forth and nack through the book before it was found. GURPS 4th at least has an index, or use the pdf version to look something up.

I once had a friend call me in the middle of the night asking me where to find something in the AD&D DMs Guide because he thought I could tell him the page number faster then he could look it up.

Originally Posted by L.J.Steele

It doesn't have momentum at this point -- in the heyday of 3rd Ed, there was a new book on the shelves seemingly monthly. Even if I didn't want to play GURPS: Flavor of the Month, it reminded me that GURPS was out there, and did cool stuff. I know its a circular problem, but new books, new kickstarters, would generate buzz and interest in the existing library.

GURPS does not publish a lot of hardbacks anymore but there is a new PDF book pretty much every month still and a couple of kickstarters each year for the past couple.
DFRPG (boxed set) came out last year? Maybe the one before that DF Monsters 2 just wrapped up and a couple of adventures have also come out.
Sadly the GURPS kickstarters are focusing on Fantasy so far. Its the most popular line, but also the one with the biggest competition.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by L.J.Steele

It doesn't have momentum at this point -- in the heyday of 3rd Ed, there was a new book on the shelves seemingly monthly. Even if I didn't want to play GURPS: Flavor of the Month, it reminded me that GURPS was out there, and did cool stuff. I know its a circular problem, but new books, new kickstarters, would generate buzz and interest in the existing library.

As an author who has two GURPS books currently on the way to publication, I'm not sure I agree with that evaluation.

Bill Stoddard

[bert]

Originally Posted by whswhs

As an author who has two GURPS books currently on the way to publication, I'm not sure I agree with that evaluation.

Bill Stoddard

Actual books or PDFs?

[Pragmatic]

Originally Posted by bert

Actual books or PDFs?

They're pretty heavily into print-on-demand, so while it won't be a hardcover, it can be a softcover, I bet.