Why isn't GURPS as popular as the D20 system and games

[carllarson]

Under Growth, it hints at the higher ST requirement, but doesn't actually address it for larger beings.

"ST necessary to support your form separately. This is 5 ¥ final height in yards."

This can mean that each SM requires +5 ST to simply carry itself.

You could also use the conversion of Mass to HP, and that is your average ST for your SM. IIRC, that's how its done for the large animal templates.

(Added) But its not required. A low density/mass creature of serious size could have an effective ST much less than indicated above, such as a SM +7 ameoboid with only ST 10.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by carllarson

This can mean that each SM requires +5 ST to simply carry itself.

No, it can't. SM is multiplicative, not additive.

SM 0 is 2 yards, ST 10.
ST +1 is 3 yards, ST 15. That's +5.
SM +2 is 5 yards, ST 25. That's +10.
SM +3 is 7 yards, ST 35. That's +10.
SM +4 is 10 yards, ST 50. That's +15.

And so on. Check the math for yourself.

Bill Stoddard

[ClayDowling]

Originally Posted by LemmingLord

This provides for two undesirable common situations. One, a game where players and gamemaster don't have a common understanding of what to expect. Two, a game where the gamemaster sits down with the players and explains the genere, gameplay, boundaries and expectations.

GURPS isn't alone in this. I find that most games actually require the game master to lay out what kind of story he's going to be telling. Because even in a framework like CoC or Traveller, where you do have a well defined world and style of play, certain types of characters are going to be more useful for certain things.

To remedy that I came up with a template a long time ago where I lay out what I'm going to do with the game. I recently recreated it as a PDF form, which you should feel free to use for your own planning.

[Johnny Angel]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

If you'd re-ask your questions in a separate (more relevant thread); I'd be happy to help.

Originally Posted by trooper6

If you are really stressed about animals. Pick up the GURPS Bestiary
http://www.warehouse23.com/item.html?id=SJG6011
While it is for 3e, you should be able to update them to 4e fairly easily. Especially is you are using the 3e to 4e Updater
http://e23.sjgames.com/item.html?id=SJG30-6024



And increase in size does not mean an increase in damage by itself. A ST10 giant does the same amount of damage as a ST10 human. However, you wouldn't have any ST10 Giants. It says somewhere that creatures with SM1 have a minimum ST of 15, SM2 minimum ST 20, etc. But really I have no idea where that was written down.

Anyway, being really tall doesn't add to damage if you are also really weak.

Nope. Change in size doesn't have a point cost for anyone. Being SM-2 or SM+2 is not an advantage or disadvantage...so it costs nothing for anyone--racial template or no.



None of the various elf templates I've seen so far have had Skinny, but if you want elves to be skinny (not slim, but Skinny as a disadvantage with the capped HT and everything), just give them the Disad in the racial template. I don't think you can be even skinnier. If you really wanted to make an even unhealthier elf, you could just make up another level--Anorexic or something. If you just imagine Elves being slim, or dwarves being stocky...but not actually have the drawbacks of Skinny or Fat...then it is just flavor, not the actual disad.

But to extrapolate to a larger level. Many monsters have Ugly Appearance...they aren't Ugly to themselves, but they are ugly to the base society, so they get the Ugly disad in the racial template.

I don't want to derail the thread, so I'll start a new thread.

http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread...018#post813018

[moldymaltquaffer]

Bah and humbug.
The GM isn't telling a story, the players are. And what type of story they're telling shifts radically whenever a new player has the focus.

Hard and fast limitations are fine. AK-47s don't belong in a TL3 world. Psi may not exist in your setting. I habitually ban the "Jinx" disad.

But limitations beyond that are unnecessary and undesirable. If something your players want to do something that doesn't quite fit the norm, charge an "unusual background" fee and be done with it.

[Eryiedes]

Originally Posted by moldymaltquaffer

I habitually ban the "Jinx" disad.

I find Jinx comes in very handy for my players....but usually only when applied to Major NPC's or opponents that the PC's might not otherwise be able to handle....just so an otherwise unforseen accident won't prematurely end the adventure.
It goes without saying...but being a henchmen in adventures I run is about the worst job in the universe you could get....followed closely by Player-Related NPC (with only a few notable exceptions)

(You know: "Red Shirt Syndrome")

I am not sure if there was an advantage (or disadvantage) created that I couldn't use in some way, shape or form....I especially love this home-made cinematic advantage I read about once called: "Hubris-Minded"....I STILL laugh when I read the description...I would reprint it here but I believe that would result in a breach of etiquette.
Most useful home-made I ever saw came from the same guy...."Badass"...very useful for "Vader"-style villains

PEACE

[Six_Gun_Sam]

Originally Posted by Professor Phobos

I wonder if the number of posters here who derided, dismissed, or outright insulted non-GURPS fans has anything to do with it?

That tends to be the nature of the internet.

Go visit a Rifts forum or HERO forum or Exalted forum or Shadowrun forum or gawd forbid anyplace discussing the differences between D&D 3.5 vs D&D 4.0, this forum is the homeland for GURPS so some bias might be evidenced by the membership.

[trooper6]

Originally Posted by Six_Gun_Sam

That tends to be the nature of the internet.

Go visit a Rifts forum or HERO forum or Exalted forum or Shadowrun forum or gawd forbid anyplace discussing the differences between D&D 3.5 vs D&D 4.0, this forum is the homeland for GURPS so some bias might be evidenced by the membership.

Indeed. I regularly hear most insulting stuff about anything not d20 on a lot of d20-centric boards. Then the D&D 3.5 vs. 4.0 stuff is just tiresome in its invective.

Again, as I said earlier. I think GURPS is doing really well. And I don't think any game no matter how brilliant will overtake D&D.

[carllarson]

Originally Posted by whswhs

No, it can't. SM is multiplicative, not additive.

SM 0 is 2 yards, ST 10.
ST +1 is 3 yards, ST 15. That's +5.
SM +2 is 5 yards, ST 25. That's +10.
SM +3 is 7 yards, ST 35. That's +10.
SM +4 is 10 yards, ST 50. That's +15.

And so on. Check the math for yourself.

Bill Stoddard

Now I feel an idiot for not having worked it through.

[Professor Phobos]

Originally Posted by Six_Gun_Sam

That tends to be the nature of the internet.

Go visit a Rifts forum or HERO forum or Exalted forum or Shadowrun forum or gawd forbid anyplace discussing the differences between D&D 3.5 vs D&D 4.0, this forum is the homeland for GURPS so some bias might be evidenced by the membership.

I understand that, I was just getting a bit frustrated with the thread. If the intent is to seriously discuss how to make GURPS more popular, then "blaming potential customers for failing to appreciate it" is not all that helpful.

GURPS is basically the ruling king of the generic rulesets and "high tactical, high realism" crowd. That's not a bad niche to be in.