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Old 05-12-2019, 12:52 AM   #751
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Default Re: Why isn't GURPS as popular as the D20 system and games

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Actual books or PDFs?
PDFs are actual books. Digital is growing, its a cheaper and portable format and with a good source you can get new copies if you lose your current ones. A nice little benefit with SJG files is you even get free errata updates.
The downside isin some circumstances its more fun to thumb through a physical copy and retail stores provide some visibility, though thats been dying too.
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Old 05-12-2019, 01:48 AM   #752
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Default Re: Why isn't GURPS as popular as the D20 system and games

I beg to differ. Books are books and digital files are digital files. Please note I think there are many excellent and relevant GURPS pdfs, but they will never draw attention to the game or pull new people in as physical books can, in my humble opinion. For me PDFs are a mixed bag, as I see tabletop roleplaying as an activity where you can get away from computers for once.

Just for the record I would also like to state that I am looking forward to Bill’s new works! And to your new work, Rory.
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Old 05-12-2019, 05:16 AM   #753
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Default Re: Why isn't GURPS as popular as the D20 system and games

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I beg to differ. Books are books and digital files are digital files. Please note I think there are many excellent and relevant GURPS pdfs, but they will never draw attention to the game or pull new people in as physical books can, in my humble opinion. For me PDFs are a mixed bag, as I see tabletop roleplaying as an activity where you can get away from computers for once.
If I know where something is, then a book is a faster lookup. If I am unsure, then the search function on a PDF is a godsend. I could not find some text on my current orders that was right in front of me. Bam! I looked it up on the computer. It is the same with gaming books.

I love Talanian’s Hyperborea game, but it’s way too big to take with me on deployment. The PDF can go anywhere my tablet can go. I can take the entire 4E library with me if I wish. I pay a price in organization, but I have everything with me. Having everything got me back into TFT. I’d been looking at other stuff and saw I had the new files with me. So I read the books and they were brilliant! I especially appreciated that the files for Melee and Wizard has a bigger font on my tablet than in print.

These are preferences for the reader. I believe for SJGames the preference is for staying in business. If and when print becomes a more profitable option, then there will be more print. We can adjust.
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Old 05-12-2019, 05:25 AM   #754
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Default Re: Why isn't GURPS as popular as the D20 system and games

I understand that some folks just read material better with physical products, but I'm not one of them. Besides being able to more rapidly read PDFs being able to *search* them later on is just too useful. Add in the fact that with a few minutes of work I can load my entire library onto a device and I really don't miss hard copy at all. I used to carry hundreds of pounds of material to the game shop (I'm talking a backpack and a rollable suitcase here) back in the day and now I carry my laptop, a half dozen cheap-o tablets, and the Basic Set. I wouldn't switch that out for anything.

And that's where the market has been for a while - digital is just how the hobby is growing. That's not to say that hardy copy, minis, etc. don't have a place - I think they do - but I think that the average consumer prefers the ease of digital. I mean, even the game board/map has been replaced by VTTs. Building a decent digital token/map/asset library isn't that hard. There are people who put stuff out for free that's easily good enough to pay for.

I run three gaming groups from Saturday to Monday at various times and for 4-8 hours. I don't both with maps or minis - I just use Roll20 and it works so well. It takes some time to set up and random "encounters" are still moderately annoying, but that automation is with the headache I think.

More on topic, I think GURPS needs more social media presence. It doesn't really have one and we've yet to get a good stream of a campaign going that interests folks. I've considered streaming my Monday night game, but haven't yet because life has been super hectic for me. I'll look at it again when things calm down because my Monday night players are personable, affable, and funny as can be. They'd be perfect for a streaming game.
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Old 05-12-2019, 07:02 AM   #755
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Default Re: Why isn't GURPS as popular as the D20 system and games

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Actual books or PDFs?
That ship has sailed. I work in academic publishing, and the rule there is that online books are cited as books, and online periodicals as journals, and blog entries according to new rules designed to provide exact identification of the cited document. The format in the former cases is slightly different, but there's no sense at all that an online publication is not "actual." In fact there are some fields where online journals are commonplace. And those rules began emerging in the 20th century.

I currently have 85 game books in my online library, OTHER than GURPS books, of which I have many. That's a nontrivial amount of text.

And also, I'm going to get paid for writing them. That makes them "real" as far as I'm concerned.
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Old 05-12-2019, 12:51 PM   #756
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Default Re: Why isn't GURPS as popular as the D20 system and games

Gentlemen, it was not my intention to say that the value or "realness" of a digital publication is less than a physical publication. In that sense, my wording "actual book" vs electronic publication was less than ideal. In my opinon the value of a publication comes from the contents, not from its format. GURPS Fantasy is obviously just as good or valuable as a PDF as it is in hardback, when it comes to the content. However, we are discussing this in the context of the (tabletop!) games industry. For example, I think there is a strong value in all the physical extras in the TFT Legacy edition. These will draw people to the game. This is harder to do with digital content. It was not my intention to derail this into a discussion of what a book is - sorry about that.

I agree with everything you said about the convenience of digital files. Call me old-fashioned, I just love print products. Which was one of the reasons the GURPS POD program made me very happy. (Still, you will have to pry GURPS Fantasy or GURPS Steampunk - both in hardcover - from my cold, dead hands! :)
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Old 05-12-2019, 04:18 PM   #757
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Default Re: Why isn't GURPS as popular as the D20 system and games

The thing about PDFs is... they're intended to be printed. If they weren't I'd find a reflowing document a heckuva lot more convenient.

I have often perfect-bound my own PDF printouts. You print the document, clamp it together with binding clips, then use white glue on the spine-edge. Wait overnight and you have a book. It's surprisingly sturdy, but if you find the glue weakening, you can just reglue it. I even rebound my Toon book better than the original (which was falling apart).

The industry is what it is. It's a choice between digital GURPS books or no GURPS books. I know what my vote is for.
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Old 05-12-2019, 04:55 PM   #758
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Default Re: Why isn't GURPS as popular as the D20 system and games

The thing about pdfs vs books is that books represent actual product on a store shelf, and thus a way to hook people who weren't already customers. However, with the way the retail market has evolved, the value of having a shelf presence has gone down, and I'm not sure how you replace it (other than advertisement, of course).
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Old 05-12-2019, 05:19 PM   #759
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Default Re: Why isn't GURPS as popular as the D20 system and games

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Originally Posted by bert View Post
Just for the record I would also like to state that I am looking forward to Bill’s new works! And to your new work, Rory.
Thank you, I am looking forward to seeing how well received it is. I have several proposals waiting in line, some related some not. For example I also want to pitch my Affinity Magic system again (previously proposed for Pyramid but a book lets me give more examples and expand it).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice View Post

More on topic, I think GURPS needs more social media presence. It doesn't really have one and we've yet to get a good stream of a campaign going that interests folks. I've considered streaming my Monday night game, but haven't yet because life has been super hectic for me. I'll look at it again when things calm down because my Monday night players are personable, affable, and funny as can be. They'd be perfect for a streaming game.
I agree, we the fans need to promote it as much as we can. Trouble is most of us dont have large audiences.
I tweet new releases and some blog posts but only have 90 followers, Facebook is another thing but isnt I think as good for getting the word out. At least I personally find using it annoying.
But at least I can reach non GURPS fans through social media since most of my followers are in the political and social activism realms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
The thing about pdfs vs books is that books represent actual product on a store shelf, and thus a way to hook people who weren't already customers. However, with the way the retail market has evolved, the value of having a shelf presence has gone down, and I'm not sure how you replace it (other than advertisement, of course).
Agreed, regardless of the relative value or preference for books and PDFs store shelves are one place books add value PDFs cant. Advertising.
But like you said that value is lower than it used to be.
I wish we had more promotional product like GURPS coffee mugs or thermos, book covers, buttons, etc that we can show in our daily lives to spread the word and start some conversations.
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My GURPS publications GURPS Powers: Totem and Nature Spirits; GURPS Template Toolkit 4: Spirits; Pyramid articles. Buying them lets us know you want more!
My GURPS fan contribution and blog:
REFPLace GURPS Landing Page
My List of GURPS You Tube videos (plus a few other useful items)
My GURPS Wiki entries
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Old 05-12-2019, 06:30 PM   #760
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Default Re: Why isn't GURPS as popular as the D20 system and games

Rick Riordan has the great scene in Heroes of Olympus series where an imortal get all annoyed and stuffy when the protagonists call a bound book as a "a book" say that they not a real book, that they are a bound book, a b-book if you must. That a real book are only found on scrolls with their continual flow that can never be replaced.
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