05-04-2015, 04:52 AM | #91 |
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Re: Operation Brünnhilde
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05-04-2015, 05:02 AM | #92 | |
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Re: Operation Brünnhilde
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Not that troopers from the SS-Sturmkommando Totenkopf; who always wear their gas masks, move stiffly but inexorably and appear impervious to pain and injury, are not very Dieselpunk.
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Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela! Last edited by Icelander; 05-04-2015 at 06:31 AM. |
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05-04-2015, 11:05 AM | #93 |
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Chemical Weapons and Delivery Systems
Germany had stockpiles of tabun and sarin nerve gasses (among others). If these were used in combat in a Weird War II scenario, what options for delivery systems exist at the technology level of the time?
I'm particularly interested in a hypothetical situation where the German side can send in troops with reliable Sealed* and the opposition is limited to TL3 or lower tech countermeasures. That seems to address the issues that made chemical weaponry have questionable utility at our real TL7. Limiting the Germans in our hypothetical situation, however, is that deploying aircraft is impossible, vehicles** are extremely hard to get to the engagement area and any artillery not man-portable is out. We're essentially arming infantry going into a target-rich environment with hostile life forms all around them, some intelligent, some not. So, could someone effectively deliver sarin or tabun using light mortars, grenades, sprayers or similar methods? What would the GURPS stats be? How large does your chemical warhead need to be to fill x number of hexes with nerve gas? How does spraying it work, if at all? What about chloride and phosgene gas? How much can you usefully compress those gasses, to use them in backpack gas dispensers (a.k.a. tactical herbicide sprayers)? Would you get improved range by using an inert compressed gas, like nitrogen, to propel the chloride or phosgene? Does early TL7 offer any realistic way to keep the phosgene or chloride extremely cold until it is sprayed? Would there be a significant range benefit to propelling the chloride or phosgene in liquid form*** by means of compressed nitrogen, so that the backpack sprayer works somewhat like a flamethrower? How would the range of poison gasses propelled under their own power compare to modern backpack riot gas dispensers? What about if we use nitrogen to propel them? What about area of effect? Do you need more or less volume of phosgene or chloride to affect a given number of hexes than you need with tear gas/CS/CN/OC? *Because of... reasons. **And those that might be moved there are mostly scout motorcycles, with perhaps one or two light automobiles. ***Becoming gaseous as soon as the temperature rose above minus lots, of course.
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05-04-2015, 11:33 AM | #94 | ||||
Night Watchman
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
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Re: Chemical Weapons and Delivery Systems
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05-04-2015, 11:38 AM | #95 |
Night Watchman
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
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Re: [WWII/TS/Covert Ops/Weird War II] Götterdämmerung on Walpurgisnacht
If you're willing to use crazy science, there was a weapon proposed by an Austrian chemist in 1944 or so that used gaseous fluorine to burn powdered aluminium. This makes a blowtorch that will go through ferroconcrete like an ordinary blowtorch through butter, but the protective clothing and respirator requirements are severe, to say the least. The US Army looked at it after the war for dismantling fortifications but felt it was too dangerous.
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05-04-2015, 12:08 PM | #96 | |||
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Re: Chemical Weapons and Delivery Systems
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I found generic nerve gas rules, but no way to distinguish between tabun, sarin or VX gas. Looks like sarin might be modelled by the generic resistable cyclic toxic effects given for nerve gas on p. B439, with Symptoms as follows: More than 1/3 HP: Moderate Pain (p. B428); More than 1/2 HP: Moderate Pain[1] (p. B428) + Nausea (p. B428); More than 2/3 HP: Coughing (p. B428) + Severe Pain[2] (p. B428) + Nausea[1] (p. B428); More than HP: Coughing (p. B428) + Severe Pain[2] (p. B428) + Retching[2] (p. B428); More than 1.5xHP: Coughing (p. B428) + Terrible Pain[3] (p. B428) + Retching[2] (p. B428); More than 2xHP: Coughing (p. B428) + Terrible Pain[3] (p. B428) + Retching[2] (p. B428); More than 3xHP: Coughing (p. B428) + Terrible Pain[4] (p. B428) + Seizure (p. B428); More than 4xHP: Choking (p. B428) + Terrible Pain[4] (p. B428) + Seizure (p. B428). [1] Lasts for as many hours as the margin of failure on the HT check. [2] Lasts for as many minutes as the margin of failure on the HT check, but persists in the form of the next lower form (i.e. Moderate Pain or Nausea) for as many hours as the margin of failure on the HT check after that. [3] Lasts for as many minutes as the margin of failure on the HT check. Is then reduced to Severe Pain, which which lasts for as many hours as the margin of failure on the HT check after that. Moderate Pain persists until all HP caused by the gas are healed. [4] Lasts for as many hours as the margin of failure on the HT check. Is then reduced to Severe Pain, which persists until all HP caused by the gas are healed. Other Symptoms than those with special notes last for as long as the character is exposed to the gas, as well as many minutes as the margin of failure on the HT check to resist. This is for someone exposed through both dermal and pulmonary means. Dermal exposure only adds an Onset time of 2d minutes and drops the Coughing (p. B428) Symptom. A gas mask adds +1 to HT checks to resist. Heavy clothing with full body coverage can give a further +1 bonus, but only for someone wearing a gas mask or not exposed long enough to need to breathe. Purpose-designed and specially-treated capes/ponchos combined with gas masks (or Doesn't Breathe) give a total of +3 bonus to HT to resist, for a modified roll of HT-3 against sarin gas. Increase the cycle time and give a bonus to the HT check for lesser concentrations than typical weaponised payloads in the immediate target area. Massive concentrations can count as more than one cyclic attack, requiring multiple HT checks and doing damage independently. Total damage for multiple doses for the purposes of Symptoms. I suppose tabun would be similar, but be resisted at HT-5 instead of HT-6 and do 1d+2 tox instead of 2d per hourly cycle. Does anyone care to propose a write-up of phosgene or chloride gas? Quote:
Oh, no. Members of the SS-Sturmkommando Totenkopf do happen wear a gas mask at all times, but there are... other reasons why they do not need to worry about being poisoned. :) Cool. How much shorter than the range of the base weapon would the range be for an adapted flamethrower which used liquid nitrogen to propel chloride or phosgene?
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Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela! Last edited by Icelander; 05-05-2015 at 06:28 AM. |
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05-04-2015, 01:43 PM | #97 | |||
Night Watchman
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
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Re: Chemical Weapons and Delivery Systems
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You need to arrange some kind of vessel surrounding the fuel tanks and fill that with LN, allowing it to boil away without developing any pressure. You fill the gas tank with gaseous nitrogen, and try not to let it get too cold; this may involve re-arranging the plumbing to move it outside the LN jacket. Here's a page about the Flammenwerfer 41. One of the tanks is for fuel and the other (probably the smaller) for gas. Somebody needs to do an Armoury job to move the tanks apart a bit and wrap a larger tank round the fuel tank. Last edited by johndallman; 05-04-2015 at 01:46 PM. Reason: straighten out terminology |
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05-04-2015, 03:37 PM | #98 | ||
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Re: Chemical Weapons and Delivery Systems
In their defence, there are pretty terrible biological organisms with Bestial and (generally) IQ 6 or lower in the operational area. Like, super-terrible.
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But now I have to stat chlorine/phosgene 80/20 mix. Himmler had to obtain a lot of something toxic without Hitler raising eyebrows and while pure phosgene might have worked even better, I'll rule that this was easier to obtain and/or had some minor operational benefits. The real reason is that the Sanitätswerfer-Pioniere of SS-Sturmkommando Totenkopf would not work if they advanced ponderously through a cloud of colourless gas. The sickly green colour is vital. Vital! Quote:
I suppose it wouldn't be out of the question that they'd have designed a weapon based on the Flammenwerfer, but with a jacketed cylinder lined with liquid nitrogen. As the troops this is being designed for will be minimum ST 14 and won't mind discomfort or fatigue, I think it would be an excellent idea to have two jacketed gas-mixture tanks and one (smaller) nitrogen propellant one. Total weight around 78 lbs. or so.
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Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela! Last edited by Icelander; 05-04-2015 at 03:55 PM. |
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05-04-2015, 04:30 PM | #99 | ||
Night Watchman
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
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Re: Chemical Weapons and Delivery Systems
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You don't want to use N-stoff, which makes a wonderful self-igniting flame-thrower, but will burn almost anything, notably including concrete and flesh. |
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05-04-2015, 06:05 PM | #100 | ||
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Re: Chemical Weapons and Delivery Systems
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Could you use N-Stoff in a Flammenwerfer and if so, what would it do to the stats?
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covert ops, special ops, tactical shooting, weird war ii, world war ii, wwii |
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