Femme Fu

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Kromm

I'm fairly sure, given the similarity of the movements, that this would extend to unarmed combat. Indeed, we have a kung fu class between two of our advanced tango classes at the studio, and the students of one often observe the other. Many times, the kung fu master and tango professor have pointed out the major similarities in grounding, balance, rapid stepping, etc., not to mention the kicks.

While true for katas and dancing, actual combat is different in that you'll have an opponent; whose goal it is restrict your options, take advantage of your weaknesses and actively maneuver you into positions you wish you weren't in.

A skilled dancer will not generally have to step somewhere they don't want or move in a way that doesn't suit their footwear*. While their footwear might theoretically limit some steps, that doesn't matter if their current set doesn't involve them.

In combat, though, situations that limit a character's options generally come with a mechanical penalty. Holding a large shield doesn't magically make cuts with your sword less accurate or powerful, but because you are limited to a much smaller subset of possible attacks while using the shield for defence, GURPS simulates it with a penalty to attack rolls.

I'm fine with characters dancing better in heels than bare feet if they trained that way, but I question whether it's realistically possible to do combat footwork as well while wearing footwear that is very poorly adapted to athletic endeavours on many kinds of terrain, given that footwork in real combat is inherently not predictable.

That doesn't make High-Heeled Heroine a bad Perk. Many games operate, implicitly or explicitly, on a premise that stylish heroism is equally or even more effective than boring pragmatism.

But in a realistic setting, I would, as I noted above, not allow characters to learn how to Dodge and Parry equally well while wearing stiletto heels as they could do in more pragmatic footwear.

I consider this the same principle as not letting realistic PCs buy traits that allow them to race equally well in a family sedan as in a purpose-built Formula 1 car. Some equipment is just better for a given task and some equipment is just worse.

*Which, after all, they chose for the dance in question.

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by Kromm

You train as you fight and fight as you train. I find it quite plausible that a person who trains in combat boots, cowboy boots, high heels, sandals, sneakers, or any other footwear that real-life people manage to function in for 16+ hours a day will – after hundreds of hours spent finding their balance in that gear, and learning to find its advantages and compensate for its disadvantages – be at her best when wearing that footwear.

This is true for dance, which isn't always done on perfect floors with perfect shoes – not if you're a pro. Some excellent tangueras dance in heels on not just wooden floors and smooth concrete, but also tiled floors and even cobbled streets. Some of the best younger tangueros prefer athletic shoes (the same ones used for B-boying), despite the grippy rubber. These are the people you see performing flashy demos at malls, in the street, and so on. They're actually not as good at their fancy footwork when wearing the wrong footwear; women used to heels are at a disadvantage in flats, and men used to grip find suede or leather far too slippery.

I'm fairly sure, given the similarity of the movements, that this would extend to unarmed combat. Indeed, we have a kung fu class between two of our advanced tango classes at the studio, and the students of one often observe the other. Many times, the kung fu master and tango professor have pointed out the major similarities in grounding, balance, rapid stepping, etc., not to mention the kicks.

I'd go with the premise that everybody gets familiarity with one broad set of training garments for free and can buy familiarity with others as a perk. You can have heels for free and be penalized in flats, or vice versa – or you can pay a point to be good in both. And heavy boots would be a separate thing again. If we're being hyper-realistic, the same would go for tight-fitting vs. loose garments. All this goes equally for dance, fighting, sports, and almost anything else, though a few familiarities might be specific to the activity; e.g., gi vs. no-gi for grappling.

Tight fitting might be better to fight in. Loose could probably conceal more things and that may be more of a priority for a Secret Agent Woman.

[Wavefunction]

Originally Posted by wellspring

My one critique is the number of Perks. It's adequate, but I think you'll want more so the player will have some choices. I'd drop Extreme Sexual Dimorphism. It might or might not be appropriate to the character, but it isn't something you'd learn in a dojo. At best you'd have to go under the knife. You've already accounted for the appearance requirement.

There are certainly options for additional Perks, I just didn't want too many, but as this has morphed into a more extensive style I could certainly throw them in.

Originally Posted by wellspring

Perhaps you could move Sexy Pose to the core style. For other perks, you could add: Acrobatic Kicks, Ground Guard, Improvised Weapons (David's right about the high heels), Sure Footed (Crowds), and Standard Operating Procedure (Hair and Makeup).

I listed Sexy Pose as optional since it's not a style perk, I fully expect all stylists to have it, but since it's not related to combat I didn't include it in the style proper. I didn't add Acrobatic Kicks mainly because I've never been clear on what the advantage of them is when you've actually got a Skill that covers kicking, but it's thematically appropriate, so I'll add it. Ground Guard is definitely added, Improvised Weapons (Feminine) seems reasonable to cover all appropriate weapons. I'm not sure what the intention of Sure-Footed (Crowds) is? Instead of SOP I'll probably add Shtick (Immaculate) to the optional traits list.

Originally Posted by wellspring

Getting even more cinematic, don't forget Trademark Moves and Teamwork for sexy operator teams (and if you're going for that kind of game, each player should have to buy Teamwork, plus each take a different trademark move, in keeping with the genre), and sexy Combat Shticks. Perhaps also Permit (Night Life), granting you backstage passes, invitations to major social events, and the right to cut the line to enter exclusive nightclubs.

Trademark Move is appropriate, Teamwork gets optional status. Not sure what to do with regards to sexy Combat Shticks, any suggestions? Permit (Nigh Life) is definitely going to the character this is designed for, but probably doesn't belong in the style.

Originally Posted by wellspring

If you don't mind, I'd like to steal this idea. I'm starting a campaign in the next month or two and at least two of my female players will go nuts when they see this.

Feel free, that's usually what I intend when I post something on the forums. :)

[smurf]

Other tricks could be:

Push Back Kick
Immovable Stance

Blocking with purse/bag/serving tray

I may look at this again for my Ninja Geisha School.

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by Kromm

This is true for dance, which isn't always done on perfect floors with perfect shoes – not if you're a pro. Some excellent tangueras dance in heels on not just wooden floors and smooth concrete, but also tiled floors and even cobbled streets. Some of the best younger tangueros prefer athletic shoes (the same ones used for B-boying), despite the grippy rubber. These are the people you see performing flashy demos at malls, in the street, and so on. They're actually not as good at their fancy footwork when wearing the wrong footwear; women used to heels are at a disadvantage in flats, and men used to grip find suede or leather far too slippery.

Short guys can learn to play basketball, but the olympic basketball team is awfully tall.

Yes, you can learn to overcome the disadvantages inherent in things. Or you can use things that aren't inherently disadvantageous. Heels aren't really ideal combat wear for a variety of reasons. You can learn to gain some advantage from them, but there's a reason the military doesn't issue combat heels, and there's a reason there's quite a business selling suede-soled shoes to dancers, and it's not because people are crazy.

Tango is a special case because it was developed for dancing on streets in leather soles. You can dance on suede on wood (and I do), but that wasn't its original intent. It was a street dance, a poor-man's dance, that didn't catch on among the Buenos Aires elite until Paris thought it was hip and cool. And there are certainly other dances like that (as Evileeyore pointed out , "It depends on the dance"), but by and large, certain things tend to be inherently advantageous for a reason.

Can you kick butt in high heels? I expect so. But I wouldn't hang up the combat boots just yet...

[Kalzazz]

I remember training to fight in tennis shoes and a T-shirt and soft athletic pants on grass

Despite the intended fighting apparel being heavy, heavily starched cotton shirt, pants and tactical boots on concrete

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by Kromm

This is true for dance, which isn't always done on perfect floors with perfect shoes – not if you're a pro. Some excellent tangueras dance in heels on not just wooden floors and smooth concrete, but also tiled floors and even cobbled streets. Some of the best younger tangueros prefer athletic shoes (the same ones used for B-boying), despite the grippy rubber. These are the people you see performing flashy demos at malls, in the street, and so on. They're actually not as good at their fancy footwork when wearing the wrong footwear; women used to heels are at a disadvantage in flats, and men used to grip find suede or leather far too slippery.

and to ad a kicker to that from the Femme issue
http://www.reelclassics.com/Actresse...r-article2.htm

Originally Posted by Frank and Ernest

Sure he[Fred Astaire] was great, but don't forget that Ginger Rogers did everything he did, ...backwards and in high heels.

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by roguebfl

and to ad a kicker to that from the Femme issue
http://www.reelclassics.com/Actresse...r-article2.htm

Did you miss Post 19?

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Mailanka

And there are certainly other dances like that (as Evileeyore pointed out , "It depends on the dance"), but by and large, certain things tend to be inherently advantageous for a reason.

For instance you own't be Line or Tap dancing in high heels, they're completely unsuited for it. Same with break dancing. And while you could do some Square Dances in high heels, you aren't gonna Hoedown in 'em.

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by NineDaysDead

Did you miss Post 19?

apparently I did