Spears in history round 2

[stranger38]

Hello guys, here again with spears... this time, from TL 1 to 3
The problem: Peasants. Were spears, weapons used by peasants in the fore mentioned TLs? i mean, i've tried, tried, but didn't find any good source of information on this.
So let me ask again to make sure no one got it wrong: it's realistic and historically correct to say that peasants had access to spears?
Let's say that our commoner "jim" is at his house, enjoying some tea with his family in somewhere in the world of TL 1 to 3 and suddenly he hears a strange noise outside, he then grabs he's spear and go check out!"
This is a realistic scenario?

[gilbertocarlos]

Most prohibitions you will find are for swords, spears are common, the "levy" during the early medieval age was equipped basically with spear and shield that they had at home. And the "levy" was a good part of the peasants.

Of course, he won't carry his spear all the time, but if he needed, sure, probably with his shield.

Also, depending on the occupation, he will have other instruments, a farmer will probably also have a scythe, a lumberjack will have an axe, a hunter will have a shortbow.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by stranger38

So let me ask again to make sure no one got it wrong: it's realistic and historically correct to say that peasants had access to spears?
Let's say that our commoner "jim" is at his house, enjoying some tea with his family in somewhere in the world of TL 1 to 3 and suddenly he hears a strange noise outside, he then grabs he's spear and go check out!"
This is a realistic scenario?

Having theoretical access and actually possessing a spear aren't the same thing. A wood axe is a far more likely weapon.

[Polydamas]

Also, "peasant" is a hugely varied class. It included everyone who lives on the land and occasionally works it themselves. In GURPS terms, peasants in any one society were anything from Poor to Wealthy, and had a wide range of Statuses and Social Stigmas (from none to Valuable Property). The same is true for several thousand years of history across all of Eurasia!

Unless you are more specific, its impossible to answer your question.

[Lord Carnifex]

TL 1 to TL 3, all over the world, is a very broad range of societies. And 'peasant' is pretty vague in a pre-Manoral economy (I'd say pre-fuedal, but that makes certain people unhappy :)

In Hellenic Greece (TL 1-2), you'd see more client farmers and slaves rather than what we'd think of as peasants. Slaves or client families would make do with agricultural tools, knives, or possibly a sling or bow. However, they also tend to live in villages where a hue and cry will rouse a couple of dozen people. Slaves and clients usually have someone they answer to (a patron, landlord, or village elder) who is likely obligated to military service and so owns whatever arms and armour that entails (at the very least a spear and shield, usually a sword, too).

Independent farm families some distance from the polis would also exist. They almost always have some sort of weapon handy for dealing with wildlife, whether a sling, bow, or javelin.

People who live inside a polis are protected by city walls and gates (except in Sparta!) All but the poorest heads of families are obligated to military service and will own weapons.

Remember that making a crude spear takes a long straight stick, a knife or axe, and a fire. Also, hospitality is a sacred virtue in Classical Greece (and pretty much is today). If someone shows up at your door, they're likely taken as a visitor rather than an intruder.

...

Edited to add: This arrangement does mean that people outside the polis in times of war are pretty much screwed. It also goes a ways in indicating the rise of the heros in the Greek tradition Whenever a threat appears, you look to the armed and armored guy to take care of you. He becomes your champion and figurehead, and it's not uncommon to tell tales about how bada$$ he is or was.

[stranger38]

Originally Posted by Polydamas

Also, "peasant" is a hugely varied class. It included everyone who lives on the land and occasionally works it themselves. In GURPS terms, peasants in any one society were anything from Poor to Wealthy, and had a wide range of Statuses and Social Stigmas (from none to Valuable Property). The same is true for several thousand years of history across all of Eurasia!

Unless you are more specific, its impossible to answer your question.

Dammit real life! making impossible for people to answer my questions!

[Turhan's Bey Company]

Originally Posted by Lord Carnifex

TL 1 to TL 3, all over the world, is a very broad range of societies. And 'peasant' is pretty vague in a pre-Manoral economy

FWIW, there's an anthropological definition of peasant you might use: a peasant is a subsistence farmer who trades surplus with an urban center.

Originally Posted by Lord Carnifex

I'd say pre-fuedal, but that makes certain people unhappy :)

Oh, go ahead. I'm betting that "feudal" is going to be like "Renaissance" or "Dark Ages." It'll be redefined rather than discarded.

Originally Posted by stranger38

Dammit real life! making impossible for people to answer my questions!

Ah, but it makes it easy to answer your questions. It's plausible for someone to have a spear; it's also plausible for them not to. Either works, so you're free to pick the one you like for your setting.

[ericthered]

I think whether or not the peasant owns a spear is dependent on his circumstances. In particular, it is dependent on the availability of acceptable targets.

a peasant in ancient egypt is not likely going to have a spear: there are no animals to hunt, and any targets would be fellow egyptians.

a TL 1 ancient german "peasant" (in as much as they had them) would very likely have access to a spear. There is lots of wildlife that no one minds if he hunts, and he has to worry about wolves and bears. In addition, there is not just one government, so human targets aren't going to be totally unacceptable either. (of course, you can argue those aren't "peasants", but "commoners").

The same principle relates to modern attitudes about guns. I grew up in a town of 20,000, and the next biggest thing was 120 miles away. EVERYBODY has a gun.

In the suburban area I live now, I often meet people who are shocked at owning a gun, and assume I mean a pistol (back home pistols are for cowboy wanna-be's, the ones who own cows use riffles).

So whether a peasant has a spear is related to the availability of acceptable targets.

[Lord Carnifex]

Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company

FWIW, there's an anthropological definition of peasant you might use: a peasant is a subsistence farmer who trades surplus with an urban center.

Fair enough. But I'm not sure that's how the OP was using the word.

Oh, go ahead. I'm betting that "feudal" is going to be like "Renaissance" or "Dark Ages." It'll be redefined rather than discarded.

As it happens, I think 'feudal' is a resonable label for certain socio-political systems. But there are those who disagree, and that discussion seemed tangental here.

Ah, but it makes it easy to answer your questions. It's plausible for someone to have a spear; it's also plausible for them not to. Either works, so you're free to pick the one you like for your setting.

Or you can tell us a little bit more of what you had in mind.

[SimonAce]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Having theoretical access and actually possessing a spear aren't the same thing. A wood axe is a far more likely weapon.

Baring some weapons restrictions, spears are very common especially in the Dark Ages and are actually cheaper than a decent knife or axe.

Any blacksmith can forge a spearhead after all and such weapons are simple to use and good for protecting animals and such.

You also might see improvised polearms, apparently it was not uncommon to straighten a harvesting scythe into a kind of glaive or to modify a threshing flail.