Rules Update for Illuminati?

[rastazed]

We split the draw pile into two piles but just to keep from knocking over the one big deck when we reach for beer and pretzels.

[Leviticus Darksyde]

Originally Posted by plasmoid

PS, and I still didn't understand what the 4 group decks were for.

It basically increases the chance of getting good cards, instead of having them all buried in One Big Deck. You draw from any of the four decks on your turn (The Network, of course, gets two draws, which he can draw from one or two of the decks). I do it this way because of the number of cards (It's pretty damn huge with the Y2K expansion). It especially works well with 4 or more people, because a lot of cards come out.

[Huyderman]

Originally Posted by Leviticus Darksyde

It basically increases the chance of getting good cards, instead of having them all buried in One Big Deck. You draw from any of the four decks on your turn (The Network, of course, gets two draws, which he can draw from one or two of the decks). I do it this way because of the number of cards (It's pretty damn huge with the Y2K expansion). It especially works well with 4 or more people, because a lot of cards come out.

Actually, it don't, since you can't see the cards...
Some basic probability math:
Chance of Getting one specific Card in one full deck: 1/{size of deck}
Chance of Getting one specific Card in a quarter deck: 1/{{size of deck}/4}
BUT, you have 1/4 chance of picking the right deck: {one card in quarter Deck}/4 == {one card in full deck}
The math is the same if we expand one card to a subset of the deck called {good cards}
{good cards}/{size of deck} == {good cards}/{size of deck/4}/4

While it may be convenient to devide the deck into smaller ones (less stretching to get to the deck and less accidental pushing it over), it doesn't do anything to help the probability of getting good cards*.

*Unless the deck is very badly shuffled which results in an observable trend of all the "good cards" going into one deck. However, this is generally not desired, that's why we shuffle.

[PK]

Originally Posted by Leviticus Darksyde

It basically increases the chance of getting good cards, instead of having them all buried in One Big Deck.

No, it doesn't, any more than changing the rule to "draw a random card from somewhere in the middle of the deck, instead of on top" does. The chances of getting any card are exactly the same with your change. Exactly.

You draw from any of the four decks on your turn (The Network, of course, gets two draws, which he can draw from one or two of the decks). I do it this way because of the number of cards (It's pretty damn huge with the Y2K expansion). It especially works well with 4 or more people, because a lot of cards come out.

No more cards come out this way (and no greater variety of cards) than in the normal rules. But apparently, you seem to think that they do, and that makes you and your group happy, so I'm certainly not going to tell you to stop. :)

[MIB 9966]

Maybe this is where we should tell him that his tinfoil hat has been inside out all this time?

[Leviticus Darksyde]

You can talk mathematical formulae all you want, but the bottom line is it works for us. Take it for what it's worth. No one is twisting your arm to try it.

As for the tinfoil hat remark: I don't wear hats, tinfoil or otherwise. Stick with facts you know about me before you make a remark like that (since you really don't know me at all, you shouldn't be making remarks like that, PERIOD).

It really annoys me to no end when people try to make their reputations by tearing down mine. Is it that you don't feel good about yourself?

[PK]

Originally Posted by Leviticus Darksyde

You can talk mathematical formulae all you want, but the bottom line is it works for us. Take it for what it's worth. No one is twisting your arm to try it.

"Don't try confusing my truth with the facts!" (Stephen Colbert)

As I said earlier, you're more than welcome to continue doing whatever you're doing. A placebo might be better than an actual cure, as long as you truly believe....

As for the tinfoil hat remark: I don't wear hats, tinfoil or otherwise. Stick with facts you know about me before you make a remark like that

He wasn't making a serious remark about you -- he was teasing you, in the spirit of the Illuminati mythos (where "tinfoil hats" are a common theme). It was a mild tease, and obviously intended as a joke, not an attack.

It really annoys me to no end when people try to make their reputations by tearing down mine. Is it that you don't feel good about yourself?

I wouldn't say so. It's a time-honored tradition to make light of posts that are full of incorrect assertions or information -- especially if the post is proven to be factually wrong, and yet the person stands by it. In such a situation, you're going to get teased. I recommend accepting it with good humor.

[Huyderman]

Originally Posted by Leviticus Darksyde

You can talk mathematical formulae all you want, but the bottom line is it works for us. Take it for what it's worth. No one is twisting your arm to try it.

I just pointing out how your suggestion was flawed from a math perspective. Since this after all is a thread discussing a rules addition to a game, I would say analysing what works and what not is a valid topic. So let me turn it around on you. Nobody is twisting your arms to adopt the rule change. If what you do work for you, more power to you. But many of us feel there is a small problem with the start-game flow, and are discussing how to fix this bug. And to do this, we have to analyse what works and what don't.

Originally Posted by Leviticus Darksyde

As for the tinfoil hat remark: I don't wear hats, tinfoil or otherwise. Stick with facts you know about me before you make a remark like that (since you really don't know me at all, you shouldn't be making remarks like that, PERIOD).

It really annoys me to no end when people try to make their reputations by tearing down mine. Is it that you don't feel good about yourself?

Dude, you're taking it way to serious. It was a light jest, nothing more. I'm sure the poster didn't actually mean you wear a tinfoil hat, but rather intended to have some fun with how you somewhat stubbornly stand by your point, even against evidence. All in good nature.

[MIB 9966]

*goes to try to adjust the obviously way too strong mind control lasers*

Perhaps I should have put a smiley at the end of that last post? The forums here are not so serious that a real attack would have lasted here without being removed, and as an MIB, I make it a point not to be confrontational since it would reflect badly on SJ Games for allowing that kind of behavior by the volunteer force.

Seriously, you can believe what you want and it's your right. To illustrate your error, though, take a deck of cards. Taking a random top card gives you a 1:52 chance of getting a particular card. If you split up the deck into 52 piles, your chance of getting a particular card is... 1:52. It just makes it easier to let people take a card from a random local pile.

[Jules]

Back to the issue at hand - (We play DI semi regularly)
I ran this past my Monday Night Games with the boys, and we agreed that there was no big reason to change the rules at all.

When there are less cards, players either take the 5MB or attack someone.
Also, the turns go around a bit quicker when there is nothing to do.

That said, when I suggested a alternate rule for getting cards we all agreed that it was a consistant modification to the rules that does not alter the base game.
RULE: "You may discard your Special on your turn, to EITHER have a privledged attack OR draw a card".
As the privledged attack rule was already there this seemed to be a very small mod to get the desired effect.
(esp. as its the drawing of Specials that make the groups so scarce)


Jules.