Rules Update for Illuminati?

[PK]

Originally Posted by Leviticus Darksyde

What I usually do is simply divide the deck into four (since I have both the game and the Y2K expansion, there's a lot of cards). This way, it's a hell of a lot easier to draw good cards of all kinds, without having to change the rules (I dislike fixing what isn't broken).

How does dividing the deck into fourths fix the problem of players beginning their turn with too few groups in the uncontrolled area?

[Genghis]

Originally Posted by Rev_Pee_Kitty

How does dividing the deck into fourths fix the problem of players beginning their turn with too few groups in the uncontrolled area?

It almost sounds like he's playing with the draw pile(s) face up.

[Leviticus Darksyde]

Originally Posted by Rev_Pee_Kitty

How does dividing the deck into fourths fix the problem of players beginning their turn with too few groups in the uncontrolled area?

It solves it by prevention. Usually there are enough Groups out in the uncontrolled area using this method. Remember, everyone gets a draw at the beginning of their turn (The Network gets two). With four decks to choose from, you're more likely to draw a Group that is useful to you. On the rare occassion this problem does happen (usually late in the game if at all), and none of the Groups are useful, the player either just takes a pass (getting 5MB in the process), or starts attacking other players if he's strong enough.

*Leviticus Darksyde, Lord of Shadows*

[Leviticus Darksyde]

Originally Posted by Genghis

It almost sounds like he's playing with the draw pile(s) face up.

(EVIL LOL) No, all the piles are face down, and shuffled. I don't run cheating games here.

*Leviticus Darksyde, Lord of Shadows*

[MIB 9966]

Just splitting up the deck into fourths means nothing in the context of the problem we've been discussing. The issue here is still if you play in a large group, and say the first four players grab all of the groups in the uncontrolled area, then the next player picks up a Special, that player is forced to either give up a turn, leaving them very weak for the all important third turn, or attack one of the first players with a strongly defended group. Splitting up the deck only spreads out the groups in a sense, but does nothing to fix the problem if there aren't enough groups in the uncontrolled area early in the game.

[Leviticus Darksyde]

Originally Posted by MIB 9966

Just splitting up the deck into fourths means nothing in the context of the problem we've been discussing. The issue here is still if you play in a large group, and say the first four players grab all of the groups in the uncontrolled area, then the next player picks up a Special, that player is forced to either give up a turn, leaving them very weak for the all important third turn, or attack one of the first players with a strongly defended group. Splitting up the deck only spreads out the groups in a sense, but does nothing to fix the problem if there aren't enough groups in the uncontrolled area early in the game.

Here's a thought: Why not buy an extra draw with 1MB? I mean, if you use Action Tokens to buy extra draws in INWO, why not buy extra draws with MB in Illuminati? Makes perfect sense to me. It beats the hell out of confusing people with all these crazy rules changes.

[PK]

Originally Posted by Leviticus Darksyde

Here's a thought: Why not buy an extra draw with 1MB? I mean, if you use Action Tokens to buy extra draws in INWO, why not buy extra draws with MB in Illuminati? Makes perfect sense to me. It beats the hell out of confusing people with all these crazy rules changes.

First off, I don't see how picking one of the proposed rules and inserting it in a game is going to "confuse people with crazy rules changes". You seem to be laboring under the misimpression that SJ is trying to add all of those rules to the game. He isn't -- he wants to find one good rule that fixes the problem and incorporate it.

And your rule is way, way extreme in the other direction. 1MB is dirt cheap and gives a huge advantage to the high-income Illuminati. It also completely, totally screws the Network -- essentially, you'd be removing their Special Ability and replacing it with +1 income, useable only for card draws, in the context of the game.

No, this is not a problem to be fixed by letting people draw more cards. Rule #2 worked well for us and did not confuse the newbies one bit.

[PK]

Originally Posted by Leviticus Darksyde

(EVIL LOL) No, all the piles are face down, and shuffled. I don't run cheating games here.

So how does that change... well, anything? Having four piles to draw from is no different than having one pile to draw from, if you don't have any way to see the cards before hand. It's a false choice -- no matter what, you're getting a random card, which you'd be getting anyway if there was only one deck.

[Leviticus Darksyde]

Originally Posted by Rev_Pee_Kitty

First off, I don't see how picking one of the proposed rules and inserting it in a game is going to "confuse people with crazy rules changes". You seem to be laboring under the misimpression that SJ is trying to add all of those rules to the game. He isn't -- he wants to find one good rule that fixes the problem and incorporate it.

And your rule is way, way extreme in the other direction. 1MB is dirt cheap and gives a huge advantage to the high-income Illuminati. It also completely, totally screws the Network -- essentially, you'd be removing their Special Ability and replacing it with +1 income, useable only for card draws, in the context of the game.

Actually, no it doesn't screw The Network; they would still have their extra draw AND can buy extra draws if they so choose under this rule (I don't believe in taking away Special Abilities just because some crybaby whines about it being an "unfair advantage"). If 1MB is too cheap, how about 2? I originally wanted to go 5, but I figured that would REALLY screw the lower income Illuminati. And it was really just a thought, anyway. It's not set in stone! Don't like it? DON'T DO IT!

As far as the Options go, #2 is the best one. Happy now?

[plasmoid]

Hi Leviticus and Kitty,

well, it screws the Network in the sense that their ability is suddenly something everybody can do - in effect turning their ability into +1 income.

Anyway - in choosing between a suggested rules change that changes the game a little, and the one you suggest which changes the game a lot, the sensible choice would be to go with the smaller change.

Cheers
Martin :)

PS, and I still didn't understand what the 4 group decks were for.