[DF] Contemplating a Chi Mastery house rule

[PK]

EDIT: I decided to go with three custom power-up Talents that improve everything except DX-based skills. Thanks for the suggestions and opinions!


---Original Post---

One thing that we've noticed in our games is that the martial artist's esoteric skills come out very unbalanced if they take a mix of attributes. The DX-based skills are all in the 17-18 range, while the IQ and Per ones are 10-11. I'd like to find a way to address this without forcing them to buy up IQ, though I don't mind as much if they have to buy up Will and Per (since those are both cheaper and appropriately thematic for warrior monks).

So I've been contemplating this house rule, and am looking for feedback. It swaps bonuses on a roughly equal number of skills. I'm not sure if it's too powerful, though, even if it's explicitly restricted to Dungeon Fantasy.

Chi Mastery comes in two forms

In Dungeon Fantasy (and only in that setting), martial artists may take normal Chi Mastery or a new variant, Chi Mastery (Mental). The latter gives no bonus to DX-based chi skills, but gives double the bonus to IQ-based ones. There is no change for HT-, Will-, and Per-based skills.

[Anders]

I would probably make this a separate Talent affecting only the mental skills and stacking with normal Chi Mastery.

[Kelly Pedersen]

Personally, I like the idea. Short of completely re-writing the skill Talent rules to be cheaper if the skills default to fewer attributes, it seems like a good fix to the issue of the martial artists being bad at IQ-based esoteric skills. I'd suggest allowing it to stack with regular Chi Mastery, or perhaps only stacking for IQ-based skills. Maybe let 50% of the levels stack for Will-, Per-, and HT-based skills?

[b-dog]

I always thought of martial arts skills as combining both physical and mental so maybe you could make the skills based on the average of Will and DX?

[Mailanka]

Here's another crazy idea (that might take some thinking through!): shift all the Chi skills to IQ, HT or "10 + talent" or something. There's an idea common in martial arts about internal/external training. DX + weapon skill is definitely external techniques, meant to defeat your opponent directly, while Chi Mastery and Cinematic skills might improve your characters fundamentals, and represent internal techniques.

I say "It might take some thinking through" because I'd have to look again at what the really DX-ish ones are, but a lot of things that look like they might fit into DX often turn out to be IQ-based, like Flying Leap or Breaking Blow. It also fits into the idea of "Combat on DX, Magic on IQ" (or whatever). It would also fundamentally change how a DF Martial Artist is built, because it creates two distinct varieties (One focused on internal cultivation, another on external expressions of power), which might not work well in a DF game. But still, it's an idea!

[munin]

I could see an intellectual chi talent for a martial artist who spends time meditating on those specific skills rather than improving general IQ, etc. But the double bonus feels wrong. I think there's 12 mental chi skills, so just go RAW — drop it to 10 points and just +1/level?

Another approach that martial artists take is becoming one with the universe through mastering forms and katas. How about something analagous to the Swashbuckler's Sheer Speed perk?

Perfect Stance†‡: You must specialize in a non-DX-based chi skill; each requires its own perk. You have learned the perfect stance and movements to channel your chi or to sense chi flowing around you for one specific effort, allowing you to learn the chi skill as if it were DX-based, instead of the usual HT, IQ, Per, or Will-based.

† Requires specialization. ‡ Permits multiple levels.

This path will surely end up cheaper than a mental talent making up for the difference between DX and IQ, but when treated as a combat perk (p. DF11:11) will take longer to accumulate and encourage players to put points into skills rather than just attributes or talents.

[sir_pudding]

You could also just allow the talents from Martial Arts that split into internal and external skills.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by munin

Another approach that martial artists take is becoming one with the universe through mastering forms and katas. How about something analagous to the Swashbuckler's Sheer Speed perk?[INDENT]Perfect Stance†‡: You must specialize in a non-DX-based chi skill; each requires its own perk. You have learned the perfect stance and movements to channel your chi or to sense chi flowing around you for one specific effort, allowing you to learn the chi skill as if it were DX-based, instead of the usual HT, IQ, Per, or Will-based.

I support the Attribute Substitution Perk more than Double effect from Talent levels.
I would also be fine with Trained By a Master allowing the option to choose the Average of IQ and the normal attribute for non IQ Martial Arts themed skills.

[simply Nathan]

Make all Chi skills based on Will, except Throwing Art which remains DX-based because it's basically Thrown Weapon(All) with some other benefits tossed in for good measure.

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by simply Nathan

Make all Chi skills based on Will, except Throwing Art which remains DX-based because it's basically Thrown Weapon(All) with some other benefits tossed in for good measure.

Will is only 5/level, while Chi Mastery is 15/level. For this to work, you either need to greatly improve your value/point of Chi Mastery, or you need to accept that players will use Will rather than Chi Mastery to improve their Chi skills.