Maces and axes

[Skarg]

Originally Posted by TippetsTX

I'm not saying they can't be thrown, but that's not what they were designed for. The most effective throwing weapons tend to be balanced on both ends (not equally, of course, but enough to facilitate rotation).

So do you also not allow throwing axes?

[TippetsTX]

Originally Posted by Skarg

So do you also not allow throwing axes?

I think we both understand that the weight distribution of a small axe is very different from a mace... not to mention the superior aerodynamics.

[hcobb]

Historical throwing maces

https://books.google.com/books?id=VA...20mace&f=false

[TippetsTX]

Originally Posted by hcobb

Historical throwing maces

Yes, I am sure in our long history of warfare that one can find nearly any permutation of a particular weapon. I think we're discussing mace-type weapons in their more abstract and generalized TFT form, however.

[JimmyPlenty]

Originally Posted by hcobb

Historical throwing maces

https://books.google.com/books?id=VA...20mace&f=false

Thanks for taking the time to send that Henry.

The main problem with it is that the maces used in that period were little more than a foot long. These are not the same kind of mace that we are all thinking of in the game. The accounts seem very anecdotal to me as well.

[Jeff Lord]

Why do we have to limit anything in this regard? Pg. 111 of ITL lists a number of various types of "maces" (dabus, gargaz, kanabo, knobkerrie, u'u). So who is to say that the mace needs to be "generalized?" Who is to say "what we are all thinking of?" One of the beauties of TFT is that, even in its abstractions, TFT doesn't have to be so vanilla.

Also, couldn't the player and GM come to a special agreement that the RAW could be applied somehow in this regard? ;)

Re: an item's "throwability" - in St. Petersburg, Russia there is at least one club that specializes in throwing "shovels" (foldable entrenching tools). I would never have believed it had I not seen it myself.

[hcobb]

I'm more annoyed that the one handed mace is six pounds!

TFT style mace: https://wallacelive.wallacecollectio...ype=detailView

[JimmyPlenty]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lord

Why do we have to limit anything in this regard? Pg. 111 of ITL lists a number of various types of "maces" (dabus, gargaz, kanabo, knobkerrie, u'u). So who is to say that the mace needs to be "generalized?" Who is to say "what we are all thinking of?" One of the beauties of TFT is that, even in its abstractions, TFT doesn't have to be so vanilla.

Those mace listed all look like normal maces, just variations in style. The throwing mace, however, is clearly different at 1 foot. Its just not the same.

I am not saying ban the idea, but it needs its own stats and not lumped in with the others.

[Jeff Lord]

@hcobb Agreed

@JimmyPlenty After doing some poking around, I found that the throwing maces of the Kataphraktoi varied in length and could be two feet (or more) in length.

" Early on, the maces were made to be short enough to be thrown as projectiles, perhaps 14" at most, but later, they became longer, upwards of 24" or more. "

So I can't actually agree that they need different stats. I also still don't believe that maces, in general, can't be thrown (i.e. I'm not buying into the distinction that there were "maces" and "throwing maces").

[JimmyPlenty]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lord

@hcobb Agreed

@JimmyPlenty After doing some poking around, I found that the throwing maces of the Kataphraktoi varied in length and could be two feet (or more) in length.

" Early on, the maces were made to be short enough to be thrown as projectiles, perhaps 14" at most, but later, they became longer, upwards of 24" or more. "

So I can't actually agree that they need different stats. I also still don't believe that maces, in general, can't be thrown (i.e. I'm not buying into the distinction that there were "maces" and "throwing maces").

The way that reads, it doesn't say that the maces were still thrown once they changed size.

Still, the fact that so much hunting (and on the internet of all things) is necessary to even find out so few instances lead me to believe it these "light" maces are apples and oranges from standard ones.

The note in Sylloge Tacticorum about the Emperor splitting the head of a wolf, seems a little propaganda-ish. Not saying it didn't happen, just that when people tend to talk about Emperors and all...

The part about Nikephoros II Phokas, in the Praecepta Militaria talk about light maces and heavy maces, with the lighter ones being thrown. Suggesting two different types.