Luck: Mundane or not?

[sir_pudding]

Spun off from: http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?p=1358574

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Luck is not luck.

Where is that written? How would "luck" work game mechanically that would be different?

Luck the advantage is supernatural

Is there errata in my Basic Set? It says the trait is mundane.

(since you seem to be purposely misunderstanding my common definition of magic.)

I'm not being obstinate on purpose. I'm saying that without a source, "wild" Luck can just be regular luck. Somebody that just happens to catch a bunch of lucky breaks can have it descriptively, rather than prescriptively. You say, "Man, that dude was one lucky son of a gun!" and then you give him Luck. No magic (or Magic/Magick/Psi/Superpower/Providence/whatever) need apply.

[Flyndaran]

In reality, luck is defined after the fact to describe improbable events. In gurps, it is a probability altering advantage before the fact in my views plainly supernatural.

(Sorry for thinking you were trolling me. My mistake. I did make my sig. for a reason.)

[Sindri]

In real life some people happen to roll well throughout their life while others don't.

I see the luck advantage of allowing you to state your character to be one of the former beforehand instead of playing out tons of characters to get one that is lucky naturally.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Sindri

In real life some people happen to roll well throughout their life while others don't.

I see the luck advantage of allowing you to state your character to be one of the former beforehand instead of playing out tons of characters to get one that is lucky naturally.

That is superstition, which is supernatural. You may believe in the supernatural, but it is not "realistic" as it is defined.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

In reality, luck is defined after the fact to describe improbable events.

Agreed but I don't see how this doesn't apply to Luck. How would you write a luck trait that wouldn't be "magical" in your view.

In gurps, it is a probability altering advantage before the fact in my views plainly supernatural.

From the point of view of the players maybe "before the fact" is accurate (although you do declare after you roll, so literally, from their PoV it is after the fact of the roll), but clearly not supernatural. From the PoV of the characters it is certainly after the fact and isn't supernatural (without an appropriate source), although people in the game might believe it is (just as people believe in supernatural luck in the real world).

[Sindri]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

That is superstition, which is supernatural. You may believe in the supernatural, but it is not "realistic" as it is defined.

I don't mean they are lucky because they have some magical ability.

If you get ten people and have them roll dice a set amount of times some of them will be more lucky. They all have equal chances of rolling a 20 and over time they will approach the proper percentage of 20s but that doesn't change the fact that a finite set might roll higher than another finite set.

[Flyndaran]

Luck is probability manipulation whether conscious or unconscious, and that is magical.
If you want a character that can make improbable pistol shots, then you give him a high skill, not some undefined super ability that affects everything he does.

[vierasmarius]

"Luck" is not explicitly supernatural, but it could be considered cinematic - a storytelling device. There is no such thing as luck in the real world, except in hindsight. In a difficult situation the lucky person is the one who survived despite the odds. It's just like history being written about the winner - if the other guy had won, history would have been written about him instead.

That said, the mechanics of Luck (especially Aspected) can be used to represent hyper-competency that helps a character avoid those rare screw-ups that even professionals are susceptible to. I think this is generally cinematic too, but in a different way. It's like the Wildcard skills from MH which grant a number of rerolls each session. It's only in fiction that people are that competant, though it's nothing supernatural.

[Sindri]

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

"Luck" is not explicitly supernatural, but it could be considered cinematic - a storytelling device. There is no such thing as luck in the real world, except in hindsight. In a difficult situation the lucky person is the one who survived despite the odds. It's just like history being written about the winner - if the other guy had won, history would have been written about him instead.

That was what I was trying to say except that when purchasing the luck advantage the player says beforehand that he will be viewed as luckier in hindsight.

And yeah it is of course cinematic.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Sindri

I don't mean they are lucky because they have some magical ability.

If you get ten people and have them roll dice a set amount of times some of them will be more lucky. They all have equal chances of rolling a 20 and over time they will approach the proper percentage of 20s but that doesn't change the fact that a finite set might roll higher than another finite set.

Statistical anomaly does not mean luck as it is used in common speech. In common speech, people are lucky as having a special ability, not just experiencing unlikely events.

Getting up when I did today to the second was extremely unlikely, but didn't require any supernatural force.
The fact that some events are considered good, and others bad, does not make those unlikely events any more magical.

Maybe we should take a step back and ask if anyone here believes in real life luck. If you do, then I understand why you would see Gurps Luck as realistic.
But if you don't, then I'm at a loss to understand.