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Old 07-24-2018, 08:20 AM   #191
Donny Brook
 
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Default Re: The Problem With Magic

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Originally Posted by scc View Post
…. I think I've figured out a real problem it suffers from: No Meta-physics.
Coherent meta-physics is the fundamental problem with all magic systems I have ever encountered. Literature can avoid it by simply writing stories which never raise the problem, but in gaming based on spontaneous choices it is not so easy. Ways to avoid it include shallow settings (where it is okay to shrug off inconsistencies) or very tight genre restrictions.

The issue is that magic is a universal property. If you have magic in your setting, unless you come up with some artifice to explain otherwise, your whole universe has magic and it has since the beginning of time. So designing a setting with magic is a challenge on the same
spectrum as designing a universe with inverse gravity.
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Old 07-24-2018, 09:46 AM   #192
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Default Re: The Problem With Magic

You can have a universe that resembles ours with magic, the only question is how does it interact with the other laws of nature?
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Old 07-24-2018, 10:20 PM   #193
scc
 
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Default Re: The Problem With Magic

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Originally Posted by Donny Brook View Post
Coherent meta-physics is the fundamental problem with all magic systems I have ever encountered. Literature can avoid it by simply writing stories which never raise the problem, but in gaming based on spontaneous choices it is not so easy. Ways to avoid it include shallow settings (where it is okay to shrug off inconsistencies) or very tight genre restrictions.

The issue is that magic is a universal property. If you have magic in your setting, unless you come up with some artifice to explain otherwise, your whole universe has magic and it has since the beginning of time. So designing a setting with magic is a challenge on the same spectrum as designing a universe with inverse gravity.
There's a difference between trying and falling short and not even trying, Magic does the later when really you'd expect the first from a GURPS product.
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Old 07-24-2018, 10:36 PM   #194
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Default Re: The Problem With Magic

Which is generally why I prefer Fantasy and Thaumotology. They attempt to frame magic within a number of metaphysical constraints that GMs can combine or meld as they wish. For example, if you want threahold-limited Realm Magic that uses the ritual elements and ritual parameters of Energy Accumulation, you are free to do so (it is actually a fairly awesome combination when you think about it).
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Old 07-25-2018, 12:03 AM   #195
Donny Brook
 
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Default Re: The Problem With Magic

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There's a difference between trying and falling short and not even trying, Magic does the later when really you'd expect the first from a GURPS product.
Magic 4e was a missed opportunity. Thaumatology corrected much of those problems, but did not address the issue of metaphysics as it affects setting-building (and consequently, campaign design and character development). What the subject needs is a book like Space 3e (or Supers 4e to an extent) -- walks you through the design/rules implications of different styles/takes and assumptions about the genre.
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Old 07-25-2018, 01:28 AM   #196
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Default Re: The Problem With Magic

Something like, say, GURPS Fantasy
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