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10-23-2019, 01:43 PM | #1 | |
Join Date: Aug 2018
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how does -1/-2 yard range reduction with staff work with missile/jet spells?
http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...07&postcount=9
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Since missile spells (like fireball) normally are held by the hands and thrown by the arms, attacking with this spell type is normally a problem if your hand is already busy holding something else (a sword, a shield) or if someone is grappling that arm, or maybe even if you lack a hand or have a poor grip? I know explicitly that the way a Staff improves upon a Melee Spell (like where your hand is normally a flame and you set people afire by punching them) is you can actually hit with the staff itself, rather than needing an empty hand. That wield a sword in that hand meaning you can't burn people by punching with it without dropping the sword. Does this basically mean that staff also subs for the hand for missile spells in terms of gripping it, so you don't need an empty hand anymore, and the tip of the spell functions like an empty hand? Similarly, that a staff also means you don't need an empty unoccupied mouth? That you you can eat an apple or be biting someone, and fire a flame jet from the end of your staff? That it's grappling penalties against the arm holding your staff that matters instead of grappling penalties against the head as Jet would normally work since you breathe from the mouth? I especially wasn't sure as missiles, as I was wondering at first if the -1/-2 yard penalties might mean something like you hold the staff in your left hand, cast the missile spell so the fireball appears in your right hand, and then as you throw with your right hand you point with your left arm (holding staff) to direct the spell more accurately. But if it comes out of your staff, then you would need to be sure not to wield your staff with your off hand to avoid the -4 DX penalty to using Innate Attack to target it? |
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10-23-2019, 02:29 PM | #2 |
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Re: how does -1/-2 yard range reduction with staff work with missile/jet spells?
I don't use G:Magic much if at all, but as far as I know the basic premise hasn't changed. Missile spells are cast to a hand or the end of your staff, then thrown. Spell range is always 0 since it's cast into where ever you are throwing it from.
When you get around to throwing it, it has a ranged profile and suffers normal range penalties just as it if it was a bow, innate attack, or gun. You can also hold it prior to throwing it for a while, but you risk dropping it on yourself if you are distracted or damaged. |
10-23-2019, 03:12 PM | #3 | |||
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Saint Paul, MN
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Re: how does -1/-2 yard range reduction with staff work with missile/jet spells?
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10-24-2019, 11:50 AM | #4 | ||
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: how does -1/-2 yard range reduction with staff work with missile/jet spells?
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More a conceptual concern than a mechanical one, though if there was some crunch to go along with this, I would say that the movement of a whipping lacross stick / staff would be more visible than a non-moving pointed stick/staff/rifle. If that were the case, then maybe there could be some kind of specialization with missile spells where you don't make a throwing motion (just point) where there is a penalty for people to notice you before you attack? That would be especially useful if you had the ability to make your attacks invisible using the optional rules for applying enhancements to spells. Quote:
Normally with handheld missile spells, If you accidentally drop a missile spell it can go off and hit you... because you were holding it in your own hex... If you are using a "staffheld" missile spell and accidentally drop it, does it accidentally damage your staff instead? Then there's the issue of: normally you have a chance of dropping the spell if YOU are hit, but if the staff is the one holding the spell, should there also be an added risk of dropping the missile spell if the STAFF is hit? I remember seeing in basic set there was actually a shock penalty to the use of a weapon if the weapon was damaged so maybe anything able to damage your weapon should also be a Will roll to avoid losing a "grip" on the fireball? |
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10-24-2019, 12:42 PM | #5 | |
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Saint Paul, MN
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Re: how does -1/-2 yard range reduction with staff work with missile/jet spells?
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10-24-2019, 01:05 PM | #6 | ||||
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Re: how does -1/-2 yard range reduction with staff work with missile/jet spells?
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10-24-2019, 01:08 PM | #7 | |
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Re: how does -1/-2 yard range reduction with staff work with missile/jet spells?
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At the other extreme a maxed-out Stone Missile of 9D+9 would be something you couldn't even lift. Looking at the Throwing rules on p.355 of campaigns you'd have to be throwing a 640 lb rock with a ST of 80. Those may not be great rules generally but we're talking about a stone equal to a very significant catapult at a minimum. So when you learn the Psychic Guidance Perk for a Missile Spell you're overcome your natural habit of trying to guide this completely magical process with your physical reflexes and are using your focussed intellect instead.
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Fred Brackin |
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10-24-2019, 01:53 PM | #8 | |
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: how does -1/-2 yard range reduction with staff work with missile/jet spells?
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I was thinking maybe you could take the option of using the Throwing skill and if it succeeds, you get a +1 bonus to your Innate Attack Roll? +2 on a critical success. |
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10-24-2019, 02:18 PM | #9 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: how does -1/-2 yard range reduction with staff work with missile/jet spells?
Based on the enumerated benefits in the box on Magic 13, using a one hex staff in one hand and a broadsword in the other hand will let you hit them with the broadsword from two hexes away. This may not be the intent.
However, if you assume that enumeration is actually restating the first sentence of the box (A “magic staff” is any wand or staff imbued with the power to extend your reach for the purpose of casting spells), it should have the same effects as increased reach. Which will help with jet spells, but not missile spells, as reach does not normally affect ranged combat (the rules for regular spells do not actually say how range is calculated; if we assume this interpretation, increased reach from long arms, size, stretching, etc, should also affect regular spells). Plausibly speaking, I would think a staff would help the accuracy of missile spells if they are projected (i.e. you point and they go where you point) as the longer length makes pointing more accurate, but would not help if they are hurled (you wind up using the staff like a staff sling, which really isn't going to help your accuracy). There is no rules support for that concept, however. |
10-24-2019, 03:03 PM | #10 |
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Cowtown, Canada
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Re: how does -1/-2 yard range reduction with staff work with missile/jet spells?
That is how I always saw it; the 2 yard effective range reduction was basically a nod towards aiming down the length of the staff without providing an actual ACC bonus. Since the spells have their own innate ACC value it wouldn't make sense to apply one for using a staff too.
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FYI: Laser burns HURT! |
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innate attack, throwing |
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